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  #31  
Old 02-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serah View Post
... I also spoke with Westland Insurance ... They were incredibly concerned about the age of the boat - she seems concerned about even getting insurance on a boat that old! Which really surprises me. Do you know anyone who has come up against that before? And without insurance - no moorage ..
You can make your offer contingent on getting insurance coverage, just as you would make it conditional to a satisfactory survey, or finding moorage, or satisfactory seatrial..... Of course it's up to the seller if he/she wants to accept this subjects....

Once the survey is in hand it's typically quite fast to get insurance, usually a phone call (agent to the carrier) and a signature. This can't be a big issue.. plenty of early 70s boats in marinas and they all must be insured (though it's the liability insurance they're most concerned about).
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  #32  
Old 02-26-2009
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Serah,
I got worried too when I first approached our normal insurance broker and they turned us down. They only take the really low risk customers and since it was our first boat we did not fit their profile. They suggested Dolphin Insurance who specialize in marine policies. Had no trouble there. You can even apply online and they have a Vancouver office. Never having made a claim I cannot comment on anything other than the ease of getting the policy.

Ken
(no affiliation with Dolphin or any known employee!)
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  #33  
Old 03-02-2009
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So the saga continues!

The boy and I headed over to the Island (again) for the survey this Saturday morning. Met up with the current owner and the surveyor, and all four of us went over every inch of the boat. I'll have the full results back on Thursday, but in short he said we're getting a lot of boat for a rock-bottom price - always good to hear! She's in good shape, though she is still a boat from the early 70s, with all that that entails. I took tons of pictures but won't have them 'til tomorrow - will post - I promise!

After digging into his network of surveyors, he could only find a bit more about her than what we had. Apparently, these were Canadian made boats, out of Richmond BC, built from 1971 to 1972, under the name of Swift-Sure (not one word.) Again, even after more Google digging, I'm still not finding much.

Concerns -
*Gas tank stored in lazarette
*Portable propane tanks stored in lazarette
*Delamination in forward deck - he feels it should be a fairly easy repair (drill holes when it's hot out, let dry for a week or so, epoxy the holes, and repaint. I'll be looking into how to do this in the next couple of months)
*Elevated moisture in a few spots on the hull and on the transom
*Hull blisters - though there are quite a few, all are still quite small (nickel sized at most), and though will require a weekend of grinding at a future haul-out, are to be expected on a boat this old.
*Engine isn't running as smoothly as it did last weekend. (it's a mid-90s 8hp mercury, and needs at the very least new spark plugs and a thermostat)

We didn't get out for a full sea trial, as it was really blowing when we were down at the docks. That will be the final condition of sale, as well as securing insurance.

There are a lot of projects to do - we priced the essentials out, and we figure probably an extra $500 to get her safe to take home (new battery, engine parts, sounder) and another $1000 for odds and sods to make her comfortable (stove/heater, charger, shore power etc.) over the next two years.

So now, we wait. We should have the surveyor's report by Thursday. If all goes to plan, we'll have insurance confirmed for Friday or early next week. As much as we'd like to have a full weekend to work on her before we run her the 60 some-odd nm home, I'm not sure how it will work out. The current owner needs the slip as soon as possible, so we can't leave her there for any longer than another two weeks.

I have nothing but praise for Arthur of Land's End Surveyors - if anyone is looking for a surveyor out of Saanich, or anywhere in Victoria, I would highly recommend him! He was very thorough, and pointed out how to fix even the cosmetic repairs. Above and beyond what we expected.
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  #34  
Old 03-02-2009
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Well, that's sounding pretty good... but the soft deck repair, while doable, is not quite as simplistic as described, and may take more than a week to "dry out". There is some debate whether the "drill and inject" method is all that foolproof or guaranteed. But that's all for another day.

At around $2K your getting into this game at a low price. (but that's only the beginning, as you well know!)
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  #35  
Old 03-02-2009
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I fully agree that the deck is not going to be a simple project. My sincere apologies in advance as I'm sure that I'll be back here cursing the day we chose to buy a boat that we knew required some fairly substantial glass work. Even in the peak of summer in Vancouver, I don't know what the chances of a completely dry week or more are going to be. Something's telling me we'll be ripping up a good chunk of the deck. *sigh* At the end of the day, this is the boy's boat more than it is mine - he has his heart set, and despite my rather vocal protestations about the state of the deck, he doesn't seem concerned. Oh, shall I rue this day...

Are there ever any repairs on a boat that are as simple as they appear? Isn't the rough rule of thumb you'll spend double what you thought, and easily double the time?

The plan is to love her, and put a lot of time into her, though keep a hard cap of $2000 on what we'll put into her (at least for things that we can't take when we sell her again in about two years, which the surveyor was pretty confident we should be able to do for $4000 or so. Not that I would ever even dream of making money off selling a boat. ) Either way, it's certainly not breaking the bank, and we'll learn a hell of a lot.
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  #36  
Old 03-03-2009
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Was just reminded earlier - all of her sails seem to have been replaced with sails from a Thunderbird, complete with sail # 19611 (IIRC) They look to be in great shape, with no tears or even worn through stitching. A jib, a genoa that looks huge (won't know % 'til we have it up when it's not blowing 30kts), two spinnakers, and the main. No storm jib though...
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  #37  
Old 03-03-2009
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Allow me to be the first to say "congratulations!" (I am taking the safe gamble that the sale will go through). I think you are making a rather good move; keeping it small and not over extending yourself. The bigger challenge is next year, when he has full on two-footitis (or perhaps even ten-footitis in a severe case) and you have to bring him back to reality (I have a bad case of it right now).

Quote:
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Are there ever any repairs on a boat that are as simple as they appear? Isn't the rough rule of thumb you'll spend double what you thought, and easily double the time?
Well, changing the main halyard was simpler than I expected
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  #38  
Old 03-03-2009
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Serah, congratulations on what sounds like a vessel that will give you tons of hours of great sailing, as well as tons of hours of, um, very rewarding time on the hard!

At some point all of us PNWers with cheap 70s boats should have a cheap-70s-boat get-together.
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  #39  
Old 03-04-2009
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Originally Posted by serah View Post
So the saga continues!

The boy and I headed over to the Island (again) for the survey this Saturday morning. Met up with the current owner and the surveyor, and all four of us went over every inch of the boat. I'll have the full results back on Thursday, but in short he said we're getting a lot of boat for a rock-bottom price - always good to hear! She's in good shape, though she is still a boat from the early 70s, with all that that entails. I took tons of pictures but won't have them 'til tomorrow - will post - I promise!

After digging into his network of surveyors, he could only find a bit more about her than what we had. Apparently, these were Canadian made boats, out of Richmond BC, built from 1971 to 1972, under the name of Swift-Sure (not one word.) Again, even after more Google digging, I'm still not finding much.

Concerns -
*Gas tank stored in lazarette
*Portable propane tanks stored in lazarette
Both of these can be solved by making a fuel/LPG locker, although, ABYC probably would frown upon storing the two in a single compartment.

Quote:
*Delamination in forward deck - he feels it should be a fairly easy repair (drill holes when it's hot out, let dry for a week or so, epoxy the holes, and repaint. I'll be looking into how to do this in the next couple of months)
Bad idea.... generally a much better idea, although more work, is to cut away the top layer of laminate and re-core the area. In the long run, it will produce a much better and stronger repair if done properly.
Quote:
*Elevated moisture in a few spots on the hull and on the transom
If the hull and transom aren't cored, this may be due to osmosis, given the blisters on the hull. If the hull is cored, this may be a big problem. I don't believe the Swiftsure had a cored hull though.

Quote:
*Hull blisters - though there are quite a few, all are still quite small (nickel sized at most), and though will require a weekend of grinding at a future haul-out, are to be expected on a boat this old.
You really need to dry the hull thoroughly before attempting to repair these. Also, barrier coating the boat at that time would probably be a really good idea. I like Interprotect 2000E.
Quote:
*Engine isn't running as smoothly as it did last weekend. (it's a mid-90s 8hp mercury, and needs at the very least new spark plugs and a thermostat)
Clean the carburetor as well.

Quote:
We didn't get out for a full sea trial, as it was really blowing when we were down at the docks. That will be the final condition of sale, as well as securing insurance.

There are a lot of projects to do - we priced the essentials out, and we figure probably an extra $500 to get her safe to take home (new battery, engine parts, sounder) and another $1000 for odds and sods to make her comfortable (stove/heater, charger, shore power etc.) over the next two years.

So now, we wait. We should have the surveyor's report by Thursday. If all goes to plan, we'll have insurance confirmed for Friday or early next week. As much as we'd like to have a full weekend to work on her before we run her the 60 some-odd nm home, I'm not sure how it will work out. The current owner needs the slip as soon as possible, so we can't leave her there for any longer than another two weeks.

I have nothing but praise for Arthur of Land's End Surveyors - if anyone is looking for a surveyor out of Saanich, or anywhere in Victoria, I would highly recommend him! He was very thorough, and pointed out how to fix even the cosmetic repairs. Above and beyond what we expected.
Good luck and congratulations.
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  #40  
Old 03-04-2009
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Thanks for the congratulations and support! I love the idea of a 70s-era small boat rendezvous!

As you can tell we've already succumbed to a case of 2ft-itis. As we went from wanting a 20' to (nearly) buying a 24', can we just say that we both had a case of it to make up for the extra 2'? I've held my other -itis (cc-itis in this case - my 49 cc scooter, Piglet, just isn't doing it for me anymore. I'm coveting a Honda Hawk CB400) at bay for a while, but we'll see. One simply can't live with two cases of upgrade-itis - one will have to lose We're only planning on keeping this one for about two years, when we'll move either to the 27' range, or right up to a 35' liveaboard.

The surveyors recommendation for the gas tank was simply to strap it to the front of the cockpit, and build a semi-permanent stair over top of it. I'm really not keen on this (not least because we now have a fuel line running the length of the cockpit. Guaranteed someone is going to kick or pull on it, spewing fuel everywhere, and possibly losing power in a sketchy situation) I think we'll be adding some sort of fuel locker in the aft starboard lazarette. This is not my area of expertise, so does anyone have any good sources on how to do this?

How do others store portable LPG tanks?

As for the deck, striping the top layer and completely redoing it seems like a better, if more tedious approach. The deck is bare where it's delaminated at least - no hatches or such to mess about with, though some of the stanchions, and possibly the pulpit may have to come off. Can this be done while she's afloat, or do we need to be on the hard? We may end up doing this sooner than expected, as the forward cleat (used for mooring, as well as everything else!) seems dangerously close to the delamination. IIRC, it was still solid there, but I will certainly be doing some poking about.

Total newb question - but how does one tell if the hull is cored? The surveyor said that the high moisture levels corresponded with (I think) the lazarettes, or somewhere else that a bit of water had pooled. He didn't seem concerned, or it may just have been that there's not much that can be done... She is an old(er) lady, afterall. Is there anything that can be done about this? Is it a safety concern? Apart from resaleability, how much should I *really* care? I read SailingDogs' boat inspection tips, which gave me the impression that if there's a high moisture rating, to simply run away. I know many will say I am insane for buying a boat I know is wet. How unrealistic am I being saying that we'll haul, dry, grind, epoxy (barrier coat?) and repaint the hull in a weekend? How long will it take for her to dry out? I assume this can't be done in a weekend. We're planning on keeping her in the water year round, and at least doing a bit of winter sailing. Would hauling for a week suffice?

(sorry for the plethora of questions!)
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