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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2002
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turbo87 is on a distinguished road
Annapolis

I sailed on a IP 380 in Maine this past summer and I loved it. The boat does need at least 10 knots of wind and is made for 15-20 knots where you can set the sails and the autopilot and feel like you are in your own home except you are on the water. It does need wind. We did get it up to around 7 knots on a beam reach.
Though I loved it I am, myself, purchasing a Dehler 34 because I will be doing more daysailing and maybe some racing along with weekend trips. The boat will be quicker in lighter winds.
I would base your decision on your experience, full keels are very forgiving boats, and use, IP''s I don''t believe will make good daysailing boats.
Frankly if your looking to cruise the Carribean and are not in a hurry I think you, and especially your wife if you have one, would be very happy and secure in any IP.
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  #12  
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Annapolis

Wow - I didn''t realize there was so much anti-IP sentiment out there! If we''re going to use a boat primarily for one to two week sails initially, along the Atlantic coast (both sides of Florida) and over to the Bahamas - with our eyes eventually to BVI and beyond, it would seem that the IP would be a good compromise (which seems to be the norm given limitations on $$$$$)? We''re not ''old salts'' and in our 50s. Right now, IP, Sabre, and J42L look good. We did''t like the cabin finish on the Jeanneau - too much sloppy caulking for one, and the ''wood'' looked cheap as compared to other boats.
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  #13  
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The anti IP sentiment is there mainly due to performance. They are very well built if not well engineered boats. I have sailed an older IP 31 and needed to backwind the jib in order to tack the boat. They are definitely a step above the Jeanneaus but at a minimum 50% price premium.The Sabre is a conservative boat and would be much faster and as seakindly if not as roomy.
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2002
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Agree with Sailmc that it''s not so much anti-IP sentiment as some direct discussion of how they perform compared to other boats. The IP may be perfect for your coastal cruising and Caribbean plans. Other responders to this thread make the point pretty well that it''s all in what you''re comfortable with and want in a boat. IPs are solid, dependable boats, and you pay for that of course.

I also think it interesting that you included the J-42 in your list of candidates. I spent some time on that boat in Annapolis and had a nice chat with Rod Johnstone,the designer. Even his cruising boats make few concessions to the usual amenities one expects of a cruiser. The J''s are SAILboats first and foremost and don''t pretend to be condo queens. No wide ass sterns on them! Interesting to compare the J-42 to an IP if nothing else, even though it may make your head hurt from the differences.

Good luck with your decision.
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  #15  
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canegardenbay is on a distinguished road
Annapolis

I''m coming in a bit late on this conversation, but my observations about Island Packets have been that their owners don''t really care how fast they go; they''re just having fun. It drives me crazy when another sailboat passes me (that old definition of a sailboat race is two or more boats that can see each other!) but the IP sailors either don''t care or don''t know how to make them go faster. I''ve got a friend with an older IP35 I sail with some times and he tends to throw the sails up and, if he''s moving, he''s happy. Other boats go whizzing by and he just waves, happy as can be. I run around and tweak the sails (and I''ve since helped him tune the rig) and we can sail by most of the other production boats in the area. I''m actually very impressed with their solid construction, their shoal draft (especially here in Florida)and their sailing abilities, IF SAILED PROPERLY.

I met Rob and Dee Dubin a few years ago at a boat show; they used to produce the video magazine called Sailing Quarterly. They had just bought an IP 40, and said it was the best boat of any that they had seatrialed over the 4-5 years filming reviews. Their website is quite informative, it''s worth a browse (www.ventanasvoyage.com). FWIW, here''s what they say about "boat speed."

"Boat Speed

First the facts- Bob Johnson has designed a fast boat. The first generation of IP''s had a bad reputation mostly because they looked tubby. But even then IP 38''s were winning the Caribbean 1500. The subsequent generations of IP''s have just gotten faster and now they win even more rallys. The combination of a fast boat and a comfortable ride continue to allow IP''s to outsail many other boats of equal or larger size. During over 4 years of cruising we have spent countless days sailing island to island with other cruisers. Nearly EVERY time we are faster than any boat under 50''. Many times we beat other respected cruising boats into port by an hour on an 8 hour sail. Even more times we hear complaints of rough passages and see our friends arrive beat up while we only noticed a bit of motion. This seems especially true going downwind where we find our IP 40 rolls far less than many other boats. We often sail dead downwind on a flat steady boat while others jibe downwind at no better speed just to ease the motion.

"With the right sails up we find we can go 1/2 the windspeed in almost any conditions upwind or down. If its blowing 6 knots we can do 3 and if its blowing 15 we can do 7-8 knots. On a reach we usually do better and with the gennikker better still."

I suspect the boats really do sail a lot better than their competitors are willing to admit.
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  #16  
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canegardenbay has got it right !!!!!
A cutter rig is quite difficult to sail at ''maximum'' due to the staysail and the required precision needed to get it ''pulling'', especially on a high close reach or beat. Since most boats constructed today are sloops there really isnt much hard data on how to get a cutter ''humming''.
If you take a look at the PHRF handicap ratings an Island Packet (IP38@168, IP40@156) isnt quite the ''slouch'' that many ''instant experts'' claim.
Many claim poor relatiave performance in light winds and I really dont find this to be the case on IPs or other moderate displacement cutters... especially with faired hulls, feathering props, rigid vangs to lift the boom, etc. and a good knowledge of how to properly trim the staysail.

Your statement about a lot of IP owners just dont seem to care how fast they go ..... a profound statement. So for long voyages, perhaps its the difference between "type A" or "type B" personalities; or, maybe its like sex ... longer/slower may be better than lots of ''quickies'',
;-)
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2002
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I guess it is a matter of perspective. I''d say a PHRF of 156 for any 40'' boat is mighty slow even for the average modern family production cruiser. Most 32'' to 34'' boats are faster.
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  #18  
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Annapolis

It all comes down to a matter of personal taste and outlook on sailing. Someone who wants to cruise far and wide should be more concerned with comfort and safety than with the boat''s speed rating. Someone who plans to race should probably not be too concerned about the boat''s sea-kindly ride.

The IP''s appear to be made for use over vast distances. Based on what I''ve seen and read, they seem to be well made for that purpose. I seriously doubt that when everyone aboard arrives at a distant location a week or so later that any will say, "I wish we could have had a rougher crossing to possibly save some time." :^(

Lastly If ''speed'' is your thing, then perhaps you should consider a power boat. Now that''s a group of "Type A''s" if I ever saw one. It seems to me that sailors are mostly "Type B''s" with some having "Type A" tendencies. ;^)

Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #19  
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Choices, choices. That''s what boats drive you to. While I agree that speed isn''t everything, it doesn''t hurt either. Here are some comparison PHRF numbers: Caliber 40 -- 120. Morris 40 -- 129. Or for those speed demons out there: Sabre 402 -- 75. J-42 -- 69. I doubt the ride on any of these would be too shabby.
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Old 10-17-2002
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IP, maybe this stands for Incredibly Passable?

Any of the +40 foot boats that have been mentioned in this thread will give one a pretty comfortable ride, whether it be a IP40 or a J42, you''re still going to move 15 feet vertically in 15 foot waves! Speed should be an important but not a sole deciding factor in choosing which vessel best fits your needs. The speed difference of a minute-a-mile over long passages could be the difference in a squall between taking a lot of sailcloth down offshore or removing the cockpit awning in the harbor.

There is no doubt that the IPs are robustly designed and built. In the trade winds you could probably not find a better suited boat however the way 95% of us use or boats, swift is better than slow. My money is on the 402!
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