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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
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  #1  
Old 03-19-2009
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How do you determine purchase price

Ive been looking at several boats for sale here in South Florida and am wondering where I could go to get a REALISTIC idea of what a boat should sell for....Ive looked at BUC and NADA but find that those are really unrealistic at least for the Florida market. Boats here dont bring the same prices that northern, and/or fresh water boats bring.

Im considering a 1982 26 footer thats in very good condition and new would have been considered a high end cruiser....The owners asking price seems way too high for a boat thats 27 years old...

Where do I start??
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Old 03-19-2009
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There are a numberr of threads covering this question.

See my post #25 in http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying...-strategy.html

Also see
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying...ing-price.html

Any source for a market value provides at best a ballpark...a well maintained and equipped boat can be a steal at 150% of market value for that year/model, whereas a beaten, needs-work boat can be a terrible buy even at 50% less than market value. The big challenge is possessing the expertise to figure where a particular boat fits in the value spectrum of that year/model market value. If you can't provide that judgement yourself, in my opinion you should be using a broker.
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Old 03-19-2009
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Quote:
seems way too high
If your not comfortable and you instincts are telling you its not right, than chance are its not the right boat.
Really, it comes down to how comfortable you are with the boat.
If the buget were unlimited, you had money to burn, and you found your absolute dream boat, than you would probably be willing to over pay for her. But since most of us are not on an unlimited budget, we have to go with our comfort level. Like I said, the price sems high, your not comfortable, keep looking.
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Old 03-19-2009
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Thank you both....both have supplied excellent info....I guess one just needs to accept the fact that a boat is not a must have item...its a luxury...its not a home or a car...(in my case its not) and must be treated in that respect. One always hopes to get into a boat with the thought of someday getting out ...so the lower you get in the easier to get out....perhaps its just better to accept the fact that what ever happens...youre just not going to see that money again....at least not all of it...unless its over insured...
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Old 03-19-2009
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Not trying to sound like a smart-ass, but a boat is worth what you (or someone) are willing to pay for it. Because there is such a huge range in condition, age and equipment associated with used boats it is very difficult to pin a specific "market value" on a specific boat. You're doing the right thing by using your gut feelings.

Also, if you look at enough comparable boats or simply boats that interest you, you'll soon get a good feel for what "x" amount of dollars should buy you.

Lastly, don't be afraid to make an offer, even if it's considered low-ball. The worst the seller can say is "no".
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Old 03-19-2009
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I have been looking at a bunch of boats.. what I do, compare some of the same boats,, both private sale and yacht broker sale.. for example: I looked at an xxxx criusing boat, full keel, older. The boat had not been upgraded at all, even though the present owner said it had.. he is "upside down" on her.. meaning he bought her a few years ago.. so I worked down from asking price.. I estimated what each component would cost to upgrade. Bottom, paint, deck, hardware, sails, rigging, on and on.. I used the worst case scenario for each repair/upgrade/fix.. this added up to thousands of dollars.. I deducted this amount from his asking price.. left an offer price of less than half his asking.. for example.. say he was asking $20000.. I offered $10000..
He was highly insulted. I could care less.. my offer was a good one, his asking was a start.. should I have gone ahead and offered close to his asking and then all the repairs/upgrades/etc that he did not do came to fruition .. I would be the fool.. he of course turned me down. And that is the lesson here.. be prepared for getting turned down.. you are watching out for you.. the seller isn't watching out for you... when my offer was submitted, it was in writing. I outlined each and every repair/upgrade/fix/ associated cost in my offer before I ended with price.. he does not want to hear such a thing.. that is fine.. if someone comes along and purchases her near his asking price, good for him. But if you do your homework, figure out what the boat will cost, not what the asking price is .. then that is how one gets to the bottom line.. do not be afraid to tell a seller what you are willing to spend for his boat. He may say no thanks, but that is ok.. you are not looking to help him out, you are looking to purchase a boat... think about it, how much is new standing rigging, running rigging, sails, engine overhaul, bottom paint removal and epoxy barrier coat... adds up.. the boat is still for sale..
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Old 03-19-2009
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I agree with everything that has been said here. You need to resist the Call of the Wild urge, or you might end up hating your new to you boat.
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Old 03-19-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennismenace111 View Post
One always hopes to get into a boat with the thought of someday getting out ...so the lower you get in the easier to get out....perhaps its just better to accept the fact that what ever happens...youre just not going to see that money again....at least not all of it...unless its over insured...
Keep in mind a boat is not an investment, it is a lifestyle and that the someday getting out part could be when you decide to give up that lifestyle. Think of what a die hard golfer spends over the years and what is left to cash in with when the lifestyle ends. Think of it as buying a vacation. I bought mine new and I know I am going to lose over 80% of the money I spent on it by the time I give it up. You don't want to be taking your money six feet under with you. Enjoy life while you can.
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Old 03-20-2009
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I did not say that .. what if your Frogbobber has the original rigging, sails,
engine, absolutely nothing has been upgraded, and the maintenance was pitiful.. But your asking price does not reflect this. Basically you are asking what the boat is worth after the maintenance, upgrades, etc..

As a buyer, I must take this into consideration. Otherwise, after I buy your
Frogbobber, I will be spending thousands of dollars on equipment, upgrades, maintenance that you neglected.

Oh,, and I also never said the seller my "pay" the buyer anything..

The question was how to arrive at an offer price ..

I come and see your Frogbobber. I add up the equipment which will need replacing, if any.. maybe your boat is in perfect condition, and you have maintained her, then the equaltion changes..

Anyhow.. I look, figure, and offer..

If you as a seller do not like the offer, you say no thanks.. and that is that.

It is not adversarial, it is business. Pay a fair price and live with it? Live with what? The boat you neglected? No thanks..

Buying a sailboat is not like getting married. It is a B O A T.. not a wife.

The boat's worth is reflected in the equipment, design, size, maintenance, etc.


And the market.. sometimes the market is better than other times..
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Old 03-21-2009
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My thoughts

Having gone through this process a two years ago:

Things that entered my mine were:
  • Boat Type/Make - How Available
  • Boat Age
  • Boat Condition - Overall
  • If not showroom (nothing is) - Cosmetic or Major "repairs"
  • Is price "fair" for condition - compared to other similar boats
  • What is my budget (with "fixes")
  • Do I want want to accept a boat knowing it has "major" repairs knowing that I would have to fix or pay to have fixed.

I agree with a lot of the advice that others have suggested, but Kwaltersmi's is pretty much the cap note to all the advice. In the end you have to be comfortable with you offer/price. If you think it is worth a million dollars to you, then it is.

I bought a house 10 years ago and my neighbor came over a few weeks later and said that the Previous Owners offered them the house for about 30K less than what we spent. They thought it was too much, which was kind of a backhanded way saying they thought we were screwed. 6 months later a similar house across the street sold for $200K over what we paid, albeit in a bit more showroom condition than ours was when we bought it. My neighbor came over and said looks like we got a pretty good deal.

When I bought my boat, Pearson 10M, I looked at a lot of similar boats. The 10M is a lesser known Pearson model compared to others, so for some reason it doesn't command a as much of a "premium" price. A Pearson 33-2, and Pearson 34, albeit 3 to 5 years younger, were asking 12 to 20K more that what I bought my boat for.

As far as were to start the negotiation, pick your absolute max price that you would pay for the the specific boat that you are looking at and offer 70 to 80%. So say the boat is offered at $20K. You think it worth, $18K because of the factors listed about. Your willing to pay $18K max, so offer $14.5K as a start, If the owner comes back as says $17K, then you have to determine to you want to keep negotiating or take it as that number is below your max. If the owner comes back at $19K, well that tells you something too. Maybe time to move on, put in a counter offer say at $17K, or reevaluate how much you want this boat.

Again, in the end, you have to be comfortable with your price.

DrB
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