A Discussion of the Philosophies of Cruising and Circumnavigating - Page 9 - SailNet Community

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  #81  
Old 04-27-2009
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Wow CD, I though I was alone in the good fight. How wrong was I.

I think many labour saving devices are good seamanship - eg electric anchor winch, furlers, etc. I also know that the old arguement about using plotters or just paper charts will continue (we use both) BUT, if you need to make a decision immediately, a look at a plotter will tell you which way to turn to get out of trouble without taking any bearings and plotting on the chart and then deciding may get you at the same point,only slower.
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  #82  
Old 04-27-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewsam View Post
Oh i'm all for electronics, don't get me wrong in that respect, I'd be a silly man not to use what's available...but i'll rely on myself and my skills to make the passage safer...

As for those great seamen of yesteryear, it's also useful remember that for most it wasn't a hobby but their livelihood...
Quite true... and for many it was not a profession of their choosing. Still, outstanding seamanship (and maybe some that was not so outstanding!!!)

You will do fine!!

- CD
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  #83  
Old 04-27-2009
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CD,

Maybe that should be Mr. CD? Talk about hitting the mark....WOW

Even Magellan took every modern instrument, and tool he could afford, and I think ice sounds lovely in my glass tinkling as I watch a sunset....lololol....i2f
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  #84  
Old 04-27-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
CD,

Maybe that should be Mr. CD? Talk about hitting the mark....WOW

Even Magellan took every modern instrument, and tool he could afford, and I think ice sounds lovely in my glass tinkling as I watch a sunset....lololol....i2f
I believe this is related... so I will just tell you that Ice was one of the most valued commodities on our boat!!!! A friend of ours used to hand his wife one ice cube for their drink, plop it in her glass, and tell her, "Now, do you realize how much diesel that is!??"

HEHE! I love it.

I also remember this sailor we met in the Tortugas. He was telling us that he had just gotten back from the bahamas and this motor boat pulled up. Apparently his freezer had frozen up so the MB chipped off the ice and threw it overboard (in front of everyone). THeir was nothing short of a lynch mob around his boat demanding he give it away next time or swim back to the US!!!

Ice... you just cannot appreciate it until you have spent a long time without it!! And I wouldn't jiggle that glass infront of too many sailors in a hot anchorage! You will end up like that motor boater!

Brian
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  #85  
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I wouldn't taunt a hungry dog, or a sailor lacking ice, but when it's hot, and the sun setting. There's a glass on the table in the cockpit full of ice. The ice cracks, and tinkles. It almost seems too decadent compared to my first cruising experience on my first boat.... ...i2f
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  #86  
Old 04-27-2009
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You monohull bigot... you forgot the Polynesians...

BTW, on another forum, I wrote:

Quote:
One thing Iíve noticed is that as the size of the boats has gone up, the average seamanship has gone down. This may be partially due to a lot of the larger boats being basically floating condos that were bought as status symbols by people with more income than sailing experience and were bought for the lifestyle, rather than to be actually sailed.

If you look at a lot of the newer boats, especially the higher production volume boats, you'll see an emphasis on open interior layouts with huge double berths, high head room, and a fair bit of automation that is IMHO fairly unnecessary, were the boat designed properly. These boats, while very pretty, donít have the stowage, the handholds or decent sea berths to make a serious passage in comfort and safety.
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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that philosophy. Period. And that is what this discussion is about - different ways of doing things. And let us not forget that the seas were sailed for hundreds (thousands) of years without any of the things we have today. Yet, I feel the emphasis of such illustrations should be less "wow, they did it so can I" and more, "Dang! THose guys were outstanding sailors.... the lost art of true seamanship... tougher than nails... very lucky."

There is also no shortage of shipwrecks laying on the bottom of the ocean from Egyptian Rafts, Carthaginian quadriremes, Roman triremes, English/French Frigates, late day wooden schooners, the Titanic, frieghters, and many more private vessels of which nothing will ever be found of ship or crew. I believe that many of the modern day devices and electronics make the oceans safer and the crew and captain safer. Yes, they are likely used as a crutch more than a tool - but therein lies the ultimate debate: to take or not to take. And more importantly, how will you use them? Will they suplement already outstanding seamaship skills? Or, will they keep you from having to develop them in the first place? Who knows. It depends on the captain and his philosophies. Thus, this thread: The Philosophies of Cruising and Circum. That is why I feel a good discussion of those philosophies merits a place in this forum.

- CD
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  #87  
Old 04-27-2009
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The Polynesians, my ancestors, used dolphins, birds, and whales for direction at times when lost due to cloud cover, and change in wind direction for too long. They slowly changed the fresh drinking water with adding salt water. These people were real minimilist... ....i2f
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  #88  
Old 04-27-2009
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Regarding boat size and seamanship... my opinions:

I feel that boats have gotten bigger because of the systems involved. Whether the seamanship has gone down?? I don't know. Possibly. I believe it is more a function of the equipment you can afford on larger boats than the boat size (if that makes sense)?

I do think that the boats of today are much more comfortable. I think that it has allowed people that could not (or would not) have gone sailing/cruising before, to go now. Perhaps these people should never have gone in the first place? Me, I am glad to see them out there (with some exceptions). I have also seen people stay into sailing longer. From roller furlings, electric winches, windlass, etc... it has allowed people to maintain their passion while losing physical strength due to age.

Of course, that has come at a trade off. I agree with the comments above about many boats being well suited (out of the box) as a great marina boat and poor cruiser or anything outside of the showroom. Compare, for example, the inside of a Tayana or Valiant against a Bene, Catalina, or Hunter ( to pick on production boats a moment). The Tayana will have fiddle boards everywhere and lots of closed cabinetry with few open shelves. Why? What good are open shelves in a sailboat unless she never sails!!??? Drives me bonkers. But when you pack in all these cabinets on a boat, you can make a big fat boat real small quickly (at least to an untrained eye). So people go on these boats at the boat show and buy for the big open space and shelves, where flower will go, and pillows, and tv's, and decorations. I have seen it sooooo many times. THere is nothing wrong with a home like touch to a boat, but if you have to spend an hour or two stowing crap just to go for a short sail, you will never sail.

On the flip side of that argument, I think that open, comfortable floor plans have been too poorly regarded in many offshore boats. Yes, it is true that those open plans can get you hurt on a crossing - but it is also true that the crossings of the world make up only a very small percentage of your time aboard. I will say that it would be easier to rig an open floor plan boat down below to make it safer for a hard crossing than it is to take a tight little uncomfortable boat and make it comfortable at anchor.

I honestly think that many people do not put enough empahsis into making their boat comfortable and get burnt out on tight living space. A comfortable boat is mandatory for cruising in my opinion. I'm not out there to prove anything. What could I prove anyways? It has all been done already by better people than me. I am out there to see the world, the people, the cultures, and be a part of nature while sharing it with my family. I wish to do that in at least some level of comfort (at last what I can afford). And for the floating condo's comment, let me just tell you that you cannot make ANY boat, especially anywhere near 40 feet or smaller, an apartment or condo. Ain't gonna happen. What do you have in that boat... a couple hundred sf at best?? How much of that is taken up with cabinetry and furniture??

I remember Tom Neale talking about this and it is funny how closely we agree on things. There were many times we would motor to weather instead of sailing because we did not want crap flying everywhere. I know we are not supposed to talk about that on sailing forums... but at least I am being honest!! I will do it still! Again, I have nothing to prove and have done my hard time on the rail. I practice every once in a while... but I think it is more to fool myself into thinking I can handle it than when the real stuff hits. I am no expert. I learn something new all the time. But I have also learned over the years what does and does not work for us. Others feel different and I wish them all the fun their boats and wives will take.

- CD
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Last edited by Cruisingdad; 04-27-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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  #89  
Old 04-27-2009
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The Polynesians, my ancestors, used dolphins, birds, and whales for direction at times when lost due to cloud cover, and change in wind direction for too long. They slowly changed the fresh drinking water with adding salt water. These people were real minimilist... ....i2f
Is that true about adding the salt water?? I had never heard that. Incredible.

Brian
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  #90  
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Possibly............. .....i2f......yes sir it is true
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