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A Discussion of the Philosophies of Cruising and Circumnavigating

61K views 158 replies 62 participants last post by  lavidanueva 
#1 ·
THere are many philosophies regarding cruising and, more so, circumnavigating. There are those that may tend to go over the top (much like myself, to admit honestly) where I want to travel in comfort and as much safety as possible. On the other side of the scale, is the "KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid), Go smaller, go now" philosophy.

I would invite both the new and seasoned sailor into this discussion. I believe there should be some disclosure up front as to your sailing experience. It would add merit to your comments and philosophies. Your experience is not meant to remove the validity of your arguments... it is to help the discussion along.

Let's remember thgat we are all friends here and each person is granted his own opinions. Respect them and try to understand their point of view - whether you agree with them or not.

I would like this thread to be informative and a good guide to current and future sailors who wish to embarq on the dream of the deep blue.

Let's kick it off and have fun with it.

Brian
 
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#2 ·
After crunching the numbers in my head, the only over-riding philosophy for going bluewater to me would mean get a boat thats either:

1) Paid for/off completely (cash)
2) Pay for the boat with home-equity or other sources of cash

If you're going to buy a bluewater boat, even those as storied as Valiants, will require you to have insurance and all the associated restrictions/covenants that go along with it. Bluewater insurance on a boat thats got a note on it is prohibitively expensive.

Now, if you get a boat with cash or home equity - there's a certain aspect of "self insurance" that goes along with it. Have enough equity on top of it to be able to limp back home if something happens to your bluewater yacht.
 
#3 ·
Circumnavigating I don't get or understand. It has been done so many times now. Saying I want to sail to Spain and then Greece and maybe Africa, I do understand. Circumnavigating seems more like something people say when they don't know where they really want to go, me I rather sail to Spain then Greece and then ......
 
#4 ·
At this point in my super-newb career, I honestly have no desire at all to circumnav. I like the idea of coastal cruising and island hopping - and maybe a crossing at some point. And that's what I'm working up toward.

But I'm with Free - I just want to have some destinations and get to them as safely as possible - then drink.
 
#5 ·
Well on OP big race boats

I have never gone more than 48+ hours non-stop (3 to 4 hour watches) BUT it was a whole lot of distance races over a 3 season time frame and it was really intense with there being no such thing as a weather window

If it stopped blowing we anchored if it blew 50 double reef and Kevlar #3 and we got really freaking wet.

On my own J24 which we bought when we were twenty something's it was picked because it could sail well and it has 4 places to sleep.

It was equipped with a boom tent for the rain a curtain around the porta potty and two solar shower bags tied around the mast base to get clean.

I really cant tell you how many weekends myself wife and her twin sister and husband spent camping on the boat but it was a lot as the Jamesport to Montauk area was hard to get bored with.

In the present i bought a another J24 because a J80 cost to much :) and the J80 mast is a bit to tall to step yourself and we still refuse to put up with being held hostage to the Long Island boat yard Mafia.

I still like doing foredeck on big race boats and you cant pay me to camp in a J24 anymore


And anything more than a good 200 mile race is still more than enough time on a boat for me :)
 
#6 · (Edited)
My personal philosophy on cruising/circumnavigating/bluewater sailing is admittedly largely based on my anticipated budget. Obviously if I had unlimited funds I'd opt for a big Oyster with air, heat, refer, radars, watermakers, RIB's, lifeboat, solar/wind/diesel generators, hotwater, SSB, autopilot, sat phone, redundant chartplotting GPS's, and just about any other piece of fluff available.

However, the reality is that I don't (and won't) have an unlimited budget. If I ever circumnavigate or make a major bluewater trip it will likely be in an "old shoe" that can be had for less than $75k (read Westsail 32/28, Southern Cross 31, Baba 30/35, PSC 27/31 Mariah, etc.). My techno and safety must-haves will be a liferaft, windvane steering, at least two GPS units, solar panels, plentiful tankage, raincatch system, and likely an SSB (perhaps only receiver). I'm with the Pardey's when they say "go small, go now". If I wait for the fully loaded Osyter with all the cozy comforts, I'll never go.

As has been said many times by many long-distance cruisers: The extra fluff on a boat doesn't make the scenary in Hiva Oa any prettier or the wildlife in the Galapagos any more exotic or the weather any better in the Seychelles. In fact, I've heard many bluewater cruisers say their only regret is not having cast off the lines sooner in life. My goal is to make the adventure happen before my kids are too old to not want to come along.
 
#7 ·
I started sailing my own boat in 1991 after taking basic1,2, and coastal ASA on S.F. Bay. 18 months later I left alone with my ex-wife standing on the dock. I sailed as far as Cabo, and back alone. I also did a sail over to P.V. Mexico with one crew. My wife to P.V., and a friend back to Cabo. Frolic is a 30ft. Columbia shoal draft.

I was of the mindset of go now, and go with the minimum. I stayed a total of 5 months in Mexico. While Frolic stayed 2 years. I flew in, and out as I earned money. I was 41, fit, poor, enthusiastic, and life was grand.

After returning to S.F. I stumbled around from job to job, and eventually opened my own business. The business was a huge success, and after 5 years I sold out. I bought Imagine in St. Maarten in 02. In 03 I, and my new wife with only 2 afternoons of sailing flew to St. Maarten to board Imagine.
A friend joined us, and we three sailed for Florida. Over the next 4 years my wife, and I have managed Imagine alone. Sailing the east coast of Florida, and months at a time in the Bahamas using South Beach as a hub.

For nearly 3 years now I have been back to work. Last June we took the month off, and raced to Miami, Acklin Island, and back to Jax Florida. Hopefully SOON I will quit work, and we will sail for the Philippines.

I put 4k miles on Frolic alone going to, and from Mexcio. I weathered 50+ mph winds around Point Conception with 20ft. + seas. I hand steered for 48 hours trying to beat up the coast of Mexico when the autopilot failed. I was thrown across Frolic's salon, and my head split open in a storm. I was thrown from her deck in yet another storm only to be drug back up onto the house by my harness. It was a strong learning curve, but all it did was deepen my desire to sail.

We have sailed Imagine nearly 10k miles in the areas described. We have seen 40 mph winds from every direction a boat can sail in. Imagine is a cold molded 46ft. cat built in Berlin by the Schmidt boatyard in conjuction with the original owner.

She has so much storage we can't fill it. She is approximently 15k pounds according to the designer Roger Simpson. The surveyor told me she was strong enough to break icebergs. I don't plan on testing his opinions although sometime in my life she may see icebergs. One never knows where life will take them.

Imagine is a speed demon compared to Frolic. We have managed 450 miles in in 48 hours. The last part of the trip from West Palm to Miami we crawled with one hull on the beach fighting the Stream. Imagine is palacial compared to Frolic. My first 4 years on Imagine I didn't work.

So here I have had 2 boats. One slow, and with the minimum of comfort as compared to the other. 2 different scenarios, one being broke, and the other with money. I can say this about Frolic, and being broke. The sunsets were as pretty. The chilled beer was just as tasty. I was younger, and could tolerate more discomfort.

My body aches, and my nimbleness is not so nimble anymore. I want more comfort, and I was able to afford it. Imagine sails flat all the time, and things stay in place. As you can see I have experienced both. All I can suggest is to just go. Go when you can, and with what you have. You can always make more money, but you can't make more time. This hits me hard especially right now. A friend of 40 years died yesterday at the age of 55. I have lived my life with no what ifs. I have not regretted living in this way.

We all get through life differently. We all have different needs, and wants. I worry that if I had waited until I could have afforded Imagine. It may not have happened. You see it was Frolic that made me focused. It was the being thrown overboard, my head split open, and all the discomforts in sailing that made me focused, and to become successful. Many of my friends call the trip on Frolic a failure. I call it a success, and an adventure that deepened the desire to sail. Go with what you have, and while you have your health.......BEST WISHES in sailing into adventure......i2f
 
#14 · (Edited)
Go with what you have, and while you have your health.......BEST WISHES in sailing into adventure......i2f
I'm not sure why this discussion between going now or waiting until we can afford something better keeps coming up. Why would we treat sailing any differently than other aspects of life. We didn't wait until we could afford a Cadilac before we bought our first car. If we waited for the perfect mate to come along we'd all be single. I don't imagine Smack waited til he could afford fine aged scotch before he took his first drink......anyway, the point is, we all love to sail or we wouldn't be here. As with everything else in life, our choices in sailing equipment is always going to be a tradeoff between what we can afford and where and how we want to sail. The amount we can afford will always dictate the where and how somewhat but it shouldn't dictate whether or not we go at all. As to whether we subscribe to the KISS theory or have to have all the bells and whistles on our boats probably has more to with personalities than economics. Even with inexpensive dinghies there is a wide range of how they are outfitted and where their skippers are willing to take them. Some of us like to push the envelope and some of us like to stay neatly sealed inside. Niether is wrong

Sorry, CD, You were probably thinking more in terms of actual outfitting when you started the thread but you did use the "P" word (philosophy) and that gives me license.
 
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#8 ·
My disclosure:

I have been sailing "large boats" for approximately 15 years or so now. I have sailed in Galveston through the shipping channel, off the coast of California, I have been offshore from Oxnard to Catalina Island and San Diego. About 8-9 years ago, I moved to S Florida with my wife and young child. We lived aboard and cruised about every inch of land including considerable time in the Tortugas. At this point I have 2 children, Chase is now 8 about to turn 9, Glen is 5. We spend almost every weekend on our Catalina 400 on Lake Texmoa, about 100 yards from where they lay up Valiant Yachts. My parents, who did some cruising with us (especially dad), have purchased a Tayana 42. We work together on both boats, so I can comfortably say that I am as knowledgeable of a Tayana 42 as I am my 400, my 380, and not as much as other boats I have sailed.

My philosophy is safety and "comfort". I do not believe in purchasing every gadget known to man, but I have found many of the modern "gadgets" add a level of safety and comfort which I will not leave home without. I also believe that they have made further destinations/shores within the reach of more people that otherwise might never have considered them.

The items I feel are essential to cruising are:

1) SSB - I have to be able to have some link of communication and be able to get weather information. You lose that about 20-25 miles offshore with only a VHF. Also, the ability to email is a cheap way to stay in touch with family and friends back home.

2) Radar - I doubt there is a piece of equipment on my boat I value more than radar. I remember one time in particular when coming in from Catalina Island and being RUN OVER by all the frieghters. Several changed their course at the last second (or so it appeared to us at the helm). THey are litterally on you in minutes. But even more so, it allows me to see markers when coming into a harbor at night, it allows me to watch for other, smaller boats, it can track the rain storms and how then are moving, and gives you eyes in the fog or when visibility is poor. I would NOT go crusiing without radar unless I never left sight of land.

3) Chartplotter. I MIGHT go cruising without a chartplotter, but it would be out of neccessity. The value in a CP cannot be overestimated. It allows you to consistently know exactly wher eyou are and if nothing else to verify your bearings that you have plotted on paper. It makes night navigation vastly easier and safer. It allows you to set in waypoints arnd areas of danger. It allows you to plot courses to minimize your passages. I do not consider it a toy for those too lazy to plot on paper - nor do I put all my trust in it. I do plot on paper every 30mins offshore. I have had them fail twice on me (once I think to lightning... to be fair). Still, it is a great safety and convenience tool. I agree with those who believe that it is too heavily relied on, but it has many positives which make it pretty hard to leave home for me.

4) Autopilot. If youa re going to do any long distance sailing, I cannot imagine going without a windvane or autopilot (the latter having both its positives and negatives). I believe one of the two is a must. A windvane is prefered by many offshore sailors as it requires no power and does better in storms. The autopilot is preferred by many because it account for XTE and interfaces with a Chartplotter to make passages a breeze. They each have their positives and negatives, not to mention costs.

5) EPIRB. Don't leave home without it.

6) Solar/Wind generation. You are required to run lights at night, your electronics draw considerable power, even the bilge pump will pull 5 amps/day. Since most boats are limited in their capacity to incorporate many batteries (with 2-4-D's being typical), you have about 24-48 hours max without power regeneration of some type. Solar and wind can vastly increase the amount of time away from mechanical power generation. We did not have solar or wind on our 380, but we had a diesel generator. Solar is better - much better.

7) Refrigeration. This is not a necessity. I understand that. But I want to enjoy my time at sea, and not live off of dried foods and can foods. I want to enjoy my time at anchor (where you spend 99% of your time) as the same.

8) Tankage. Lots of it, both water and fuel. Each person must consume in water 1/2 gallon-day in normal circumstances or you will dehydrate. However, when sitting in the hot sun of the tropics or working a winch or doing other strenuous activities, that number will go up considerably. You also have to have some water to cook. You have to have some water to wash your hands before cooking and hopefully after you use the restroom. You have to use your main for power regeneration and to motor through some storms and to get off a lee shore, and to go down the ICW, etc. Tankage has to be a serious concern.

9) Boat. I believe a boat should be comfortable down below. It is your home, not a weekend vacation where roughing it is fine. It has to have a lot of room for storage of goods and spare parts. I believe in a well-performing boat, boat one that can take a beating in the 5% storms you will encounter. We can discuss this in more depth later.

10) Room for a tender. I believe you must have a tender. We ended putting countelss miles on ours. I think the resano for this should be obvious.

This is not my complete list, but it is a start. It gives you a good idea of my philosophies and what I believe a cruiser (especially a circum) should take. I would apprecaite other's thoughts.

- CD
 
#9 · (Edited)
My disclosure:

I have been sailing "large boats" for approximately 15 years or so now. I have sailed in Galveston through the shipping channel, off the coast of California, I have been offshore from Oxnard to Catalina Island and San Diego. About 8-9 years ago, I moved to S Florida with my wife and young child. We lived aboard and cruised about every inch of land including considerable time in the Tortugas. At this point I have 2 children, Chase is now 8 about to turn 9, Glen is 5. We spend almost every weekend on our Catalina 400 on Lake Texmoa, about 100 yards from where they lay up Valiant Yachts. My parents, who did some cruising with us (especially dad), have purchased a Tayana 42. We work together on both boats, so I can comfortably say that I am as knowledgeable of a Tayana 42 as I am my 400, my 380, and not as much as other boats I have sailed.

My philosophy is safety and "comfort". I do not believe in purchasing every gadget known to man, but I have found many of the modern "gadgets" add a level of safety and comfort which I will not leave home without. I also believe that they have made further destinations/shores within the reach of more people that otherwise might never have considered them.

The items I feel are essential to cruising are:

1) SSB - I have to be able to have some link of communication and be able to get weather information. You lose that about 20-25 miles offshore with only a VHF. Also, the ability to email is a cheap way to stay in touch with family and friends back home.

2) Radar - I doubt there is a piece of equipment on my boat I value more than radar. I remember one time in particular when coming in from Catalina Island and being RUN OVER by all the frieghters. Several changed their course at the last second (or so it appeared to us at the helm). THey are litterally on you in minutes. But even more so, it allows me to see markers when coming into a harbor at night, it allows me to watch for other, smaller boats, it can track the rain storms and how then are moving, and gives you eyes in the fog or when visibility is poor. I would NOT go crusiing without radar unless I never left sight of land.

3) Chartplotter. I MIGHT go cruising without a chartplotter, but it would be out of neccessity. The value in a CP cannot be overestimated. It allows you to consistently know exactly wher eyou are and if nothing else to verify your bearings that you have plotted on paper. It makes night navigation vastly easier and safer. It allows you to set in waypoints arnd areas of danger. It allows you to plot courses to minimize your passages. I do not consider it a toy for those too lazy to plot on paper - nor do I put all my trust in it. I do plot on paper every 30mins offshore. I have had them fail twice on me (once I think to lightning... to be fair). Still, it is a great safety and convenience tool. I agree with those who believe that it is too heavily relied on, but it has many positives which make it pretty hard to leave home for me.

4) Autopilot. If youa re going to do any long distance sailing, I cannot imagine going without a windvane or autopilot (the latter having both its positives and negatives). I believe one of the two is a must. A windvane is prefered by many offshore sailors as it requires no power and does better in storms. The autopilot is preferred by many because it account for XTE and interfaces with a Chartplotter to make passages a breeze. They each have their positives and negatives, not to mention costs.

5) EPIRB. Don't leave home without it.

6) Solar/Wind generation. You are required to run lights at night, your electronics draw considerable power, even the bilge pump will pull 5 amps/day. Since most boats are limited in their capacity to incorporate many batteries (with 2-4-D's being typical), you have about 24-48 hours max without power regeneration of some type. Solar and wind can vastly increase the amount of time away from mechanical power generation. We did not have solar or wind on our 380, but we had a diesel generator. Solar is better - much better.

7) Refrigeration. This is not a necessity. I understand that. But I want to enjoy my time at sea, and not live off of dried foods and can foods. I want to enjoy my time at anchor (where you spend 99% of your time) as the same.

8) Tankage. Lots of it, both water and fuel. Each person must consume in water 1/2 gallon-day in normal circumstances or you will dehydrate. However, when sitting in the hot sun of the tropics or working a winch or doing other strenuous activities, that number will go up considerably. You also have to have some water to cook. You have to have some water to wash your hands before cooking and hopefully after you use the restroom. You have to use your main for power regeneration and to motor through some storms and to get off a lee shore, and to go down the ICW, etc. Tankage has to be a serious concern.

9) Boat. I believe a boat should be comfortable down below. It is your home, not a weekend vacation where roughing it is fine. It has to have a lot of room for storage of goods and spare parts. I believe in a well-performing boat, boat one that can take a beating in the 5% storms you will encounter. We can discuss this in more depth later.

10) Room for a tender. I believe you must have a tender. We ended putting countelss miles on ours. I think the resano for this should be obvious.

This is not my complete list, but it is a start. It gives you a good idea of my philosophies and what I believe a cruiser (especially a circum) should take. I would apprecaite other's thoughts.

- CD
Are you changing the original question ? What your saying now is more what equipment you need to go cruising.
 
#10 ·
Good list CD. Well thought out.

How do you feel about life rafts?

I'm still not sold on radar as a necessity. I agree they are a nice luxury. However, they draw a lot of power when active. And the shipping lane example you gave about the ships bearing down on you and changing course at the last moment was because they were using radar, not because you were. So a radar REFLECTOR might be more valuable as a safety tool, though I've heard their effectiveness is debateable too.

I'm on the fence with EPIRB's too for circumnavigating and bluewater passagemaking. I believe that if you choose to circumnavigate and/or make a major bluewater passage you need to be fully confident in your sailing and survival skills and not rely one bit on rescue from others. If your EPIRB signal is being emitted, you've encountered a major problem and you're likely too far from help for it to matter in the immediate future. But I could be wrong. I'm a bit jaded about EPIRB's after having read Steve Callahan's book Adrift. His EPIRB didn't help and he was constantly rationing it's battery life.
 
#16 ·
Good list CD. Well thought out.

How do you feel about life rafts?

I'm still not sold on radar as a necessity. I agree they are a nice luxury. However, they draw a lot of power when active. And the shipping lane example you gave about the ships bearing down on you and changing course at the last moment was because they were using radar, not because you were. So a radar REFLECTOR might be more valuable as a safety tool, though I've heard their effectiveness is debateable too.

I'm on the fence with EPIRB's too for circumnavigating and bluewater passagemaking. I believe that if you choose to circumnavigate and/or make a major bluewater passage you need to be fully confident in your sailing and survival skills and not rely one bit on rescue from others. If your EPIRB signal is being emitted, you've encountered a major problem and you're likely too far from help for it to matter in the immediate future. But I could be wrong. I'm a bit jaded about EPIRB's after having read Steve Callahan's book Adrift. His EPIRB didn't help and he was constantly rationing it's battery life.
Unless you have no value for your own life and do not care for the feelings of the family you leave behind, you have a responsibility to carry an EPIRB and take the basic precautions to preserve your life as you can. That is my philosophy. Other may differ, but I doubt few people that even go out without an EPIRB would not have pulled it when their ship went down. Keep that in mind.

Regarding the Liferaft, I will show you a pic:



I had it and hated lugging that thing around. It was a $5,000 pain in the but. But I have kids and I have a responsibility to them to do everything possible to be safe. If I wer eprimarily coastal, NO WAY I would buy it. THey are expensive, require lots of maintenance, are hard to see by, etc. Still, it is one of those things that you look back on and say, "Man am I glad I wasted $5,000 on that and never even used it." The alternative ain't so pretty.

Regarding the Radar Reflector, in my opinion, it should be required of EVERY boat that leave goes to sea, right along with life jackets. They are not expensive and can save multiple lives and property. I did not include everything in my list - but that was especially an oversight.

Brian
 
#11 ·
Cynthia and I are relative newbies to sailing. Our goal is to learrn the ropes here in the Chesapeake, cruise the East Coast, then maybe do some island hopping. Sane people would say that we are too old, we don't have enough money, our boat is older than our kids, and that it's nowhere near capable of crossing an ocean. So be it. We say we're not getting any younger, there is never enough money so we are lowering our expectations, the old boat keeps the water on the outside, I can pretty much fix everything else. And we're not planning to cross any oceans. So we are going, as soon as we can, with whatever we have on hand at the time.
 
#13 ·
Well

Saftey stuff and when you wear it is mandated on race boats buy the A B C that defines the risk of a race from a day sail in a bay to open water

And the amount of training and required stuff is going up every year to the point of boats no longer being able to afford the required stuff
 
#15 ·
There are no wrong answer in this thread as I think they all relate to each other.

The philosophy I am talking about is much about the equipment, as the comfort level, as the safety comfort level, as the boat. Your philosophy on cruising and where your comfort level is.

SOMe adhere to the get me out there on the water asap, I will take minimal precautions with my life and live very meagerly. If the ship goes down, she goes down. On the other end of the spectrum is the: I want every device known to mankind for safety and where is my satelite television!! I have seen both.

It is also a discussion of gear. What gear do you feel is an absolute mandatory? What is optional? What would you not take if it was given to you?

It is your philosophy on cruising, and in reality on life. I think it would be interesting to see different people's philosophy on this matter and how that affected their choices in what they took, their regrets, and what they would change looking back. For example, we did not have a watermaker. We REALLY rationed water. It was kinda tough with a kid, but we managed. Now, looking back, I would get a watermaker if at all possible. Same with an SSB... having that free communication with the outside world would sure have been nice!!!!

On the other hand, we invested in a diesel generator. In all disclosure, I have done so again. but I learned that we really did not run her that much (but when we did, MAN WAS IT NICE!!!). Where before I went I prioritized a generator high on my list so that I could sit in the Tortugas of the World and have Air conditining (like I assume deveryone else did), I get there and you really don't need it. We would run it to charge the batts or cool off the boat when it was raining, but that was about it unless we were feeling really adventurous!!!!!

What are other's thought?? I would like to here Imagine2Frolic's too. That would be a great perspective (from a cheap ole mulithuller... but we won't hold that against him!!).

Brian
 
#19 ·
I'm on the fence about the life raft. We won't be going very far off shore. The longest I anticipate would be Cape May NJ to Block Island RI. We'll wait for settled weather when doing that. Perhaps across the Bay of Maine to Nova Scotia. Other than that, all island hopping, coastal cruising. Yea, anything can happen but what are the chances of really needing it. EPIRB, yes for sure.
 
#20 ·
With 3 summers of lake sailing under my belt, I bought Aria. Since that time, I have gone (with crew) from Texas to Tampa, and since then, I have been singlehanding (from Tampa as far north as Annapolis, back to the Keys and then back to North Carolina). No offshore, or even coastal experience (tides, currents), nor any training. What I had, was a desire to do what I wanted, as much in the manner I wanted to, as possible.

I could have waited a few more years, had more money (and wouldn't have to be working right now), but I would have lost those 3 years, as well as not met all the folks that I have as I've traveled. For myself, this is what I want to do, until I'm unable to do it any longer. As my first signature line said:

Within a dream, we may live a fantasy,
But never within a fantasy, will we live a dream.

That pretty well sums up my philosophy.
 
#21 ·
Well for what it's worth here's my nickle in the juke-box,

What I want:
A working head. It's a much better and safer option than over the rail, and the bucket thing is just nasty.

A self-steering setup. even if it's just a sheet to line rig. Gonna be plenty of times I need to be away from the Helm to get things done.

Coffee maker.

Bookshelves. Love to read almost as much as I love Jazz.

Sound system. Don't need to be fancy. And if it fails, well the i-pod in my head will kick in.

Solid hull and rig. The best safety net is a good boat.

What I'm not worried about, but I'd like.

A destination. It gives you some impetus to get going and set your lines straight. But "The point of the Journey is not to arrive".

Radar. It sucks a bilge-load of juice, but if it even once keeps me from being run over....

A refrigerator. Would be nice, But I have no problems subsisting off of PB and 'taters. Plenty of dried' canned good to leaven it out.

A HAM rig. Makes it cheap to talk to my parental units, and if you can receive it, there's a net for just about everything.


Things I really don't care if I have or not.

Liferaft/epirb. It's just me. If I screw the pooch and wind up sinking my own boat, why shouldn't I pay the price for it?

Speed. I want to be in a given place in a hurry, sailing probably won't get me there in the most expeditious manner.
 
#22 ·
A gentleman on another sailing board replied to a question about how your know when you're ready for bluewater by saying "You're ready when you're ready to go without insurance." That one pithy statement basically describes our philosophy about safety equipment & tools. (Disclaimer: we have no dependent parents, no kids, no cat, no dog, not even a houseplant)

Second disclaimer: 12 years of serious bigger-boat sailing experience, US East Coast, Caribbean, Great Lakes, ours and OPB, mostly coastal with some bluewater. Our first destination when we take off this autumn is Bahamas so no radar but 2 reflectors (mostly day hops, little fog), lots of water/fuel tankage, no liferaft, stout boat, jacklines & MOB pole. Our biggest safety feature is an oversized anchor with 100 feet of chain - i.e., wait for settled weather, no schedule.
 
#23 ·
The liferaft thing shocks me a bit as most of my distance racing starts in western LIS and does not go futher than Block Island or the Vineyard

A liferaft has been required as long as i can remenber and i dont know anybody with bigger boat dollars that even thinks twice about it
 
#24 ·
IZZY,

I have to agree with you neither way is wrong, and that was my point.

CD,

Which specific thoughts would you like for me to express? I was trying to express that with a small boat, and a small amount of money. You can have just as much fun as a big boat.

A large boat, and the funds to care for it is what suits me now. I am much older, ache, not quite so nimble, and not quite so strong either, so the cat suits me now. I would do it all over again in Frolic if need be.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Hmmmmm...Why Wait? What's my philosophy? Now, there's a topic I can address.

First - background. Ever wonder what happened to some of those musicians you saw on the club circuits. They were "the band" that night and once finished they hit the road for another town.
They were the guys that you never heard of that opened for that big act that was your favorite band and they were the guys that everyone called "the roadies". I'm one of those guys. It was a wonderful experience and I never want to do it again. I started sailing when I was 10. Of course while traveling as a musican I didn't get on a boat but about 5 years ago a sailboat came back into my life. At the time I thought it was an accident. I'm not absolutely convinced that god sent me that boat. In fact, my life is a long list of miracles and I have the big guy upstairs to thank for each and every one of them.

Once gone I don't want to have to work. I'm so lazy that I'm running 4 different business's right now in order to make sure I don't have to work in a few more years. It takes time to do that but I'm working my tail off to accomplish it.

I have 4 kids. The two oldest are step-sons from a previous marriage but I have guardianship of them. (Not going to get into the bio-parents turned into worthless pieces of C*** discussion) I'm gonna make sure they graduate high-school before we're out of here. They'll be elgible for every kind of grant and loan out there for college if they decide to go. The two younger ones? I think the educational system is quickly going to hell and it won't be long before the public school system will become worthless. We'll home school them and they'll be better off for it.

Bigger boat with "most" of the equipment? (see 4 kids) We need room for the crew. However, all that extra crew will sure come in handy at times. I think there are some things that will make it possible for me to provide a little better for the safety of the Admiral and crew. As a husband, father and the man of the house this is my responsibility. EPIRB and liferaft, expensive? YES! But these are just some of the items I feel a responsibility to provide in the best interest of my crew (family).

Why go? God put a big beautiful world out there! I think we have an obligation to explore it and I think I have an obligation to show it to the kids. The book Jonathan Livingston Seagull may be pretty descriptive of how I feel about what we're supposed to do with the time we have on this earth.

Dang, my post turned out a lot shorter than I thought it would! Fair winds and full sails to all!
 
#30 ·
What I will be taking is what came with the boat.

Radar does come in handy, but I would not buy it to leave.

I have 4 GPS. 2 handheld, 1 wall mounted, and one usb port Maptech.

I have an EPIRB, but it came with the boat also. I would not buy one if money was tight.

A 170gl. watermaker came with the boat, and I truly appreciate it. Once again if money was tight I would not buy one. I have a large bimini that will catch water. There is a hole in the rear bulkhead where a hose funnels down to 6 5gl. cans that we can fill quickly. We carry 180 gallons of water, and that will go a long way with only 2 people.

I have a small 2k Honda generator that fulfills our needs plus some. This I would want no matter what. It is perfect for power tools. I have fixed a hole in my bow when I was hit in the middle of the night. This while at anchor, and I painted the boo boo too.

Solar & wind to me is a necessity. They served me well during our cruising. 4 6amp solars, and a KISS wind generator served our needs.

We have refridgeration with a small ice box. It will make 6 trays of cubes in several hours in the Caribbean. I would not want to do without this, but I would if it made a difference of me leaving, or not.

We have a house freezer that's 2.1 cubic feet, and this will run off of an inverter with the motors running. For a couple of years we used this successfully running it in the middle of the day for a couple of hours. Of course this varied if we had to motor from spot to spot. This I can take, or leave, but it is nice being able to carry more than a month's worth of meat. Before I bought the house freezer we did use the little one by repackaging all meats, and stuffing the poor thing like a turkey.

SSB is great for getting weather, but I would leave without one.

I have been carrying around this sextant since 92, and have never learned to use it. This time I will take it with us, and use it properly as a tool for navigation. Hopefully soon the GPS will be just a backup.

My harness goes where I go. I love my harness it saved my life. I was thrown off my boat as I typed before, and then drug back up onto the house.

Extra sails are needed. I will start with recent headsails, and a new main. Keeping the old main as a backup. I do have a couple of old headsails already, and 2 spinnakers of different sizes.

Barometer is useful if there is no SSB to gather weather.

I carry no life raft, because my boat will be the most stable life raft I can have. Plus it is all wood with collision bulkheads. The deck, roof, and side walls to the windows all carry 1 1/2" floating insulation.

What I want is to build a sailing dink just in case the boat burns to the waterline, and I need to sail out of there.

Paper charts for intended destinations with detail. Paper charts for passages of oceans with a wee bit of detail. This in case the laptop dies. I love the chart plotter, becuase of it's instant knowledge. I did Mexico with GPS, and paper. Paper charts a must, and chart plotter a luxury.

Frolic taught me how to get by with nearly nothing. I had no windlass, watermaker, chart plotter, refridgeration of any kind. I had radar, because S.F. Bay can be pea soup in the summer. It did allow me to sail around weather a couple of times, and pick out a reef in a dire situation.

NEEDED

paper charts
sextant
GPSs
large water tankage,
extra sails
2k generator
manual windlass
autopilot
harness
proper PFD's
/ what am I forgetting?

If I had the money I would buy a liferaft, sea anchor, and drouge. I wouldn't add anything else, and as you can read I can do without many of the luxuries, at least luxuries to me, that are now on board.

Imagine was built with no access to shorepower. She had no hot water heater. There is a funnel in the vanity to pour hot water from a tea kettle into a seperate shower tank for a warm shower. She was built to be on the hook, and to have very few needs for power.

She is large, but she is a simple & modest boat. I like it that way:D Even her crane to hoist the dink is only a 1" piece of stainless tubing that attaches to the main halyard. I am sure more will come to mind......i2f
 
#31 ·
Hmmm, I will try and comment on a few things too:

Davits: We have always had them. We have them now. We almost NEVER put the tender on davits. It flops all around offshore, even worse in the ICW when a sportfish goes by on half plane, and at anchor when the sun goes down you are too freaking tired.

Dink: RIb has been the best, and I have owned all of them (Rib, roll-up, HPIB). However, hauling that hunk of fiberglass around (especially up the davits) is such a PITA that once again, we hated doing it. We elected, with all its tradeoffs, for a HPIB Hypalon. In theory it planes out like a RIB. In practice, unless lightly loaded, it does not. In theory it handles like a RIB. In practice, it is squirelly on a plane. In theory it is easy to hoist and to deflate and handle. THAT IS TRUE. Still, I think the RIB may still be the best boat for a cruiser. We did pull our RIB 99% of the time. Many people do not. We have been caught offshore with it in a storm and it was not fun. We pulled the plug out of our dink. It had a one way valve. They work prety well, supriingly (until the valve gets old or filled with barnacles or junk).

Boasun's chair: I would try to take one with me... but not the end of the world if you did not. I have gone up on a board with holes. Not fun. Had to clean my shorts a couple of times, but you can do it. Still, having a good chair to stick a bunch of tools with you is great.

Tools, tools, tools, tools. We prepped by putting all the tools on our boat at the marina and everytime we needed something, buying it or bringing it from home and keeping on the boat. Got quite an assortment then. Extas do not hurt of screw drivers and ratchets as they somehow have an attraction to water (especially when up the mast).

Brian
 
#33 ·
I once witnessed a boat coming out of the inlet in St. Augustine. She about 45+ft, and had her dink on a davit. The dink was being dunked into the waves. My question is how much suction force is this transfered to the mounting of the davit?

Imagine has a grated platform for the dink to sit, and we have never had a problem with the dink moving even in some snotty bouncy weather.

I have had 2 Zodiacs. One with 4 boards for the floor, and a flat bottom. It bucked, and wandered. The second has an inflatable keel, but it wasn't much better.

The third was a 9ft. Caribe with no floor, and it was sweet. The fourth, and current dink is a 12ft. Caribe with anchor locker, and a floor. It's a wee bit heavy for the wife, and I to bring aboard. I have to wrestle the thing. The 9ftr. I could deply, and bring back up onto the sterns alone......i2f
 
#34 ·
Dinks: I've had a Quicksilver 8' inflatable, 10' Zodiac RIB, and an 8' Sand Piper. The Sand Piper has no inflation and is rather like a Walker Bay.

They all have their pluses and minuses. Without a rigid bottom, the inflatables don't track worth a damn and don't feel that well when "on plane". The RIB's are better under power. The biggest benefit I see to any dink with inflation is stability for passengers while loading, unloading and riding. The biggest drawback is that they don't row well, which is a big turn-off for me.

The pure rigid boats like the Sand Piper and Walker Bay, along with more traditional glass or wood dinks (prams, etc.) row very well and can even be fit with a sail/rudder kit for fun while on the hook or in port. They're not as stable, but I like the option of rowing and the durability provided with no pop-able inflatable chambers.
 
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