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post #31 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
has a kindly sea motion and is capable of comfortably taking you around the world... Congratulations! You got exactly what you expected.
Really? Just look at last year Pacific puddle jump. Three w32 entered, one missed float plan, one sank, and one dismasted and abounded.
Or, if you want real details how the boat behaves in real storm, read,let's skip Perfect Storm, and start with


Rescue in the Pacific: A True Story of Disaster and Survival in a Force 12 Storm
Tony Farrington
$14.95 $11.98

Where out of 9 boats featured two are westsail and westsail-alike.
For me there are enough FACTS to stay away from the boat and enjoy it from a distance. Like, it looks really salty.

CR
s/v NEMO - Freedom 28 Cat Ketch, centerboard
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post #32 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRu View Post
Really? Just look at last year Pacific puddle jump. Three w32 entered, one missed float plan, one sank, and one dismasted and abounded.
Or, if you want real details how the boat behaves in real storm, read,let's skip Perfect Storm, and start with


Rescue in the Pacific: A True Story of Disaster and Survival in a Force 12 Storm
Tony Farrington
$14.95 $11.98

Where out of 9 boats featured two are westsail and westsail-alike.
For me there are enough FACTS to stay away from the boat and enjoy it from a distance. Like, it looks really salty.
Wow, first time I've ever heard of any of these accounts. Were the boats at fault or the skippers?

I've never sailed on a W32, but there's two for sale nearby here on Lake Michigan that I'd love to consider if I had the cash. The darn things seem to hold their value (~$50k) for as old as they are. I'm personally interested because speed is very far down my priority list, whereas strength, interior volume/LOA, and salty looks are all high on my list. I think a W32 would make a good family boat for a few years while my daughters still sail with my wife and I. Then she'd be a good "sail away" boat when the kids are grown. My biggest concern would be the small cockpit when not on a bluewater passage.

Catalina 34

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post #33 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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I think there is a lot of hubris and totally wrong comparisons being made about 'cutters' that is introduced by 'sloop only' jockeys, especially with reference to 'pointing ability'.

1. Most cutter rigs have 'power bows' or more 'blunt bows' that increase the reserve buoyancy and to increase load carrying capacity. Sloops typically have 'fine' entry bows. The net result is that the cutter will typically have an increased bow 'entry' angle (~10+degrees greater angle than a 'fine entry' bowed sloop) and the 'bow entry angle' will help determine how a boat will point ... or not.

2. More importantly .... A cutter has TWO stays in front of the mast, a sloop only one. Therefore with only one 'backstay' reacting to the sail/wind loading acting on the two forward stays these forward stays will be operating AT LESS than the tension that keeps the luff leading edge shape close to the boats centerline (pointing ability as a result of sail geometry/shape at the 'entry' to the luff, etc. ... artificially induced 'luff hollow' which causes 'draft aft, decreased angle of attack and hooked up leech, etc.). Sloop jockeys dont know this based on their single forestay experience.
So, when beating with a cutter rig all one has to do is operate the FORESTAY - the stay directly in front of the mast - with the least amount of tension so that the 'reaction load of the backstay transfers primarily to the HEADSTAY (headstay now operating at proper tension to affect proper topsail luff shape and closer to the boats center line) and the cutter rig will now "point like a banshee" ...... but at a slightly less beating angle because it normally has a greater bow entry angle. When beating, the staysail 'under' will not be SEEN 'drawing' anyway, but IS redirecting the aerodynamic flow TO the topsail as well as reducing mast turbulence and thus increasing the aerodynamic efficiency of the MAINsail and topsail .... NOT 'drawing' but making the other two sails more aerodynamically efficient and therefore does not NEED the forestay tension simply because it isnt becoming as 'windloaded' as the headsail !!!!!!!! ... so just 'relax' the forestay strain, which automatically transfers to tension to the headstay .... and watch the disbelief that you see in the faces of sloop jockeys sailing nearby as you 'point like a banshee' (but at about 10deg. less pointing angle of a sloop because of the 'bow shape').
If you dont consider this 'differential play' on forestay/headstay tension youll only get as low as 90-100 deg. tacking angle on a CUTTER RIG, something that 'sloop jockies' have absolutely NO idea about. A well set up cutter rig (rigging tensions) with 'dead-on' differential headstay/forestay tension 'can' easily sail as high as 30 deg. 'apparent' and NOT be 'pinching'.
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Last edited by RichH; 10-05-2011 at 11:30 AM.
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post #34 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRu View Post
Really? Just look at last year Pacific puddle jump. Three w32 entered, one missed float plan, one sank, and one dismasted and abounded.
Or, if you want real details how the boat behaves in real storm, read,let's skip Perfect Storm, and start with


Rescue in the Pacific: A True Story of Disaster and Survival in a Force 12 Storm
Tony Farrington
$14.95 $11.98

Where out of 9 boats featured two are westsail and westsail-alike.
For me there are enough FACTS to stay away from the boat and enjoy it from a distance. Like, it looks really salty.
Oh BS, just look at how many sloop rigged Westerly boats that broke up on the first 'round the world' race. That purpose built 'blue water' boats break up in EXTREME conditions is a function of maintenance or the forces generated exceeded the design FACTOR OF SAFETY limitations o f the structural design. Westies and most 'Perry Boats' typically have a FS greater than 3.5.
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post #35 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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About the Westsail 32

I made one honest response and was accused of making an "ad hominem post" and a "somewhat preposterous" statement. Also that what I said was my "opinion". I can see where some of you are coming from. Everthing I referred to concerning the Westsail-32 is verifiable and published. I can understand not liking a particular boat, but to make things up about it, on occasion lieing about it, shows a complete lack of integrity. This forum owes it to the people who are honestly looking for information to deliver that information honestly.
The Westsail-32 is a much better sailing boat than most people give it credit for. I have delivered 8 of them over the years. I have also delivered more than 140 other sailboats.
CrazyRu pointed out some verifiable negative facts about the W-32. I could add to his list. I also could produce a list showing Ericksons, Hunters, J boats, S-2s, Santanas, Etc,Etc,. Westsails are "out there doing it" and **** happens. CrazyRu has enough FACTS for him to stay away from the boat. I have enough FACTS to stay away from a number of other boats too.
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post #36 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH;
purpose built 'blue water' boats break up in EXTREME conditions is a function of maintenance or the forces generated exceeded the design FACTOR OF SAFETY limitations o f the structural design. Westies and most 'Perry Boats' typically have a FS greater than 3.5.
See, it is an issue I'm having with w32 proponents. Most of their proclamations are faith based. Like the one above.
How's about first 100 or so of w32 on which hull connected to deck via wooden board. Yes, I mean it. There wooden board in which deck and hull screwed in. And there is a big crack to let water into wood. Sure is it safety factor of 3? Especially now, 40 years after a boat built? Or boomkin's chainplates, which are( were) inadequate from the beginning, and believed to be number one reason of rig failure.
And I can keep going. Get the facts, guys

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post #37 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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See, it is an issue I'm having with w32 proponents. Most of their proclamations are faith based. Like the one above.
How's about first 100 or so of w32 on which hull connected to deck via wooden board. Yes, I mean it. There wooden board in which deck and hull screwed in. And there is a big crack to let water into wood. Sure is it safety factor of 3? Especially now, 40 years after a boat built? Or boomkin's chainplates, which are( were) inadequate from the beginning, and believed to be number one reason of rig failure.
And I can keep going. Get the facts, guys
.... and please return to the statement of MAINTENANCE (implies correction of developing design flaws, etc.) one could EASILY include corroding keel bolts, fiberglass fatigue, etc. etc. etc. etc. in 'other' such designs. The Law Of Entropy cant be avoided .... the entire Universe is 'winding down', and that includes the inevitable 'weakening' of any man-made structure. Maintenance (and a functioning brain) extends the 'service life'. Service-life or useful life isnt strictly based on 'boat brand' or 'style' or 'preference'.
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post #38 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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Originally Posted by CrazyRu View Post
See, it is an issue I'm having with w32 proponents. Most of their proclamations are faith based. Like the one above.
How's about first 100 or so of w32 on which hull connected to deck via wooden board. Yes, I mean it. There wooden board in which deck and hull screwed in. And there is a big crack to let water into wood. Sure is it safety factor of 3? Especially now, 40 years after a boat built? Or boomkin's chainplates, which are( were) inadequate from the beginning, and believed to be number one reason of rig failure.
And I can keep going. Get the facts, guys
I think what you are trying to say is that a lot of people buy boats based on faith.. and may be a bit misguided?
Yes I would agree with that. Some people buy boats based on an idea. That is not the boats fault however. If you buy a 40 year old boat and proceed to take off across the Pacific without replacing things like chainplates, rigging, wood that has become rotten over those 40 years, and other maintenance issues that would be the same on any other boat regardless of design you are acting foolishly.
But that is not the boats fault.
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post #39 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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I'd listen to Oregonian if I were you.

Rich also has it right. BS is rampant here.
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post #40 of 76 Old 10-05-2011
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Yikes .... "The Master" has spoken .... silence will soon follow.

Thanks for being the referee, "Mr. Perry"
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