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  #41  
Old 10-05-2011
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Thank you Bob Perry and Dave King
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  #42  
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When speaking of Satori, the Westsail 32 in the so-called perfect storm, it must be noted that this particular boat would represent the best of the breed, as it were. The original owner was extremely experienced as a Captain, and specified extra heavy rigging and gear on his factory-finished boat - not all were. He also maintained a strict maintenance schedule and the boat received refits every, I think it was every 3 years. I mean re-bedding windows, deck hardware, the works. He had absolute confidence in his boat and knew what he was doing. ANY boat can be overwhelmed, and a well-maintained design can fare better than a poorly maintained brilliant design. Just some things to consider.
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  #43  
Old 10-05-2011
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I agree. In those conditions all the ratios and righting moments in the world are not going to save your fanny. The big variable is the skill of the skipper and the condition of the boat.
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  #44  
Old 10-07-2011
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About the Westsail-32

About the Westsail 32.
I’m not finished. For many years I have kept my hand on the tiller. It is more comfortable than a mouse. I only recently have seen this stuff on the internet even though some post go back to 2002. Concerning the Westsail-32. What- A- Bunch- of- Crap! Where in the world are you guys coming from?
I will be brief:
Myth #1) The W-32 can’t point. In fact, under exactly identical conditions, it will point equal to the average 30’ racer cruiser. Does this mean 30’ers can’t point? I have sailed to Hawaii 7 times on W-32’s (“ it means nothing, it is all down wind”). I have sailed back to the West coast on W-32’s 8 times. I can assure you that sailing back cannot be done without going to weather in stout head winds. Two returns (different boats) were under 19 days. If you don’t think this is respectable, ask anyone who has returned from Hawaii in a 35’ boat.
Myth #2) The W-32 can’t run. In fact it runs faster than most 36’ racer cruisers.
Myth #3) “You’ll never see 7 knots” In fact, 7 knots is no big deal. Anybody with some real Westsail experience can verify this. I have made good 1641 nm in 10 consecutive days. 1774 nm were sailed in those same days. Do The Math. These numbers are all filed away in about 50 different boats log book. (For the skeptics - there was no current the first half of that run and about ¼ knot of current the second half)
Myth #4) It hobby horses. Not a myth, but not a problem. All boats will hobby horse in some conditions. The old Swan 39 could have won the Kentucky derby for hobby horses. Trim is always important on any boat.
Myth #5) All that other stuff. Get Real JeffH. Is any boat perfect? Is it really that bad? Why do so many W-32 owners love their boats?

I fully understand some of you not liking the W-32. No one boat is for everyone. It is time to end this ridiculous ridicule of the boat. The reason for the very strong opinions on this boat is precisely because the proponents are trying to counter the outrageous comments, often made-up, often lied, about the boat. It is difficult to see what FACTS the opponents are trying to establish. Maybe some of you can’t see past the D/L ratio, or the SA/D ratio, or the Prismatic Coefficient, or whatever. Well, the answer is: there is more that affects the movement of a boat than you seem to know.
I have observed in just the past several days that you guys are obviously quite knowledgeable about boats, with a phenomenal combined intelligence. I fully appreciate that. Many of you in the quest for knowledge have erroneously picked up some inaccurate information. All humans have done this. My request is that you modify your knowledge with some of the above data. An apology to the W-32 owners is also in order.
All future boat owners can benefit from our experiences. Boat designers need correct, accurate data to design better boats. The “numbers” don’t always tell the full story. There is too much that is unknown at this time. Innuendos, falsehoods, rumors, hearsay, denigrating nicknames, and other agendas, do not produce better boats. Real, comparative, data does.

I need to get back to the tiller. I have a Catalina 30 to take up the coast.
Thankyou,
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  #45  
Old 10-07-2011
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That would explain the PHRF rating of 216.
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  #46  
Old 10-07-2011
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I don't have a horse in this race, but here's tidbits to keep this 9 year old discussion running... errr... beam reaching.

A good read for those that haven't caught up: Sailing Vessel 'Satori' : 1974 Westsail 32

Unreated to the above...

I've always admired the looks of the Westsail 32 and was lucky enough to spend some time with my Contessa 26 in the slip beside another fellow's W32 this summer; Both of us having a similar story of delivering our respective boats home via the long way through the Great Lakes. Over the few days, we compared notes and swapped stories over lunches, wine and sweets. We had visited the same ports, experienced the same weather and sailing conditions and taken roughly the same route.

We had wine and sweets on their boat; The cockpit is larger but much less comfortable than my own. The W32 interior was gorgeous; Woodlined, warm, welcoming and cavernous. We never reciprocated because our cabin is too small and jammed full of everything we needed for a 6 week journey.
Their capacity allowed them to pack more 'necessities', were they necessary? Perhaps. More clothes, an oven, rigging cutters, plenty more tools and spares... all things to make life nicer and perhaps a bit safer that we simply can't bring with us on the Contessa. They had a classic rowing dinghy rigged for sailing up on deck, compared to our inflatable, deflated and stored in the v-berth; It required using a boom to get it back onboard, I can lift mine up on deck by its painter. His companion was requesting roller furling for their headsails as a Christmas present, my budget easily permitted roller furling. His engine had seized enroute and was stranded, unable to find a crane in that area large enough to haul out his boat to put it on a truck... My Contessa would not have had such constraints.

Because I admired the W32 quite often during those few days, my wife asked me if that was going to be our next boat (yay! She thinks we're going to get another one some day!!)... but I had to think about it. I certainly admired it for all of the beauty, and character and so-on, but I was quite content to sleep in my barebones Contessa that night; I couldn't imagine having to haul such a big boat around with me, or how I would manage to fill all that space below decks or why I would need to... I'm sure the fellow thought the same thing about my boat; He admired her looks but I can imagine them saying, "How do they live in such a small space? Where do they store ____? How do they cook on a single burner?" etc.

At the end of the day, you have to understand your boat's strengths and weaknesses and determine if they fit your lifestyle. At the end of the day, if you want a light boat, buy a Melges or some Farr design. If you want a classic double-ender, then buy a Westsail 32. If you want plastic? Pick one of many production boats. *shrug*

p.s. As a side note, we compared speed figures; My Contessa, in my clumsy hands, easily makes hullspeed at 6.3+knots under normal conditions (we've hit a maximum of 15.6kn SOG during a BFS with 14' short/steep waves on Lake Erie). The Westsail was quite happy to achieve over 6kn and was definitely working to push that figure over (up to?) 7kn - they were faster than us, but not by much. The difference is not the top speed but how long you could keep it there and how hard it was to reach it. We both admitted we were the slowest boats on the Lakes. :-)
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  #47  
Old 10-07-2011
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I find this whole discussion about PHRF ratings rather humorous. The base ratings (Northern California YRA) for the Westsail 32, Valiant 32, and Valiant 40 are 216, 168, and 132, respectively. Based on those numbers, and everything being equal, we could expect all three boats to sail from San Francisco to Hawaii and finish within about two days of one another, after sailing for about two weeks. BFD. With the exception of bragging rights, does a cruising sailor really care if it takes sixteen days, rather than fourteen days, to complete such a long passage?
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  #48  
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I thought the V32 had a PHRF of 189. Not sure where Bob is coming from with the PHRF either.
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  #49  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
BFD. With the exception of bragging rights, does a cruising sailor really care if it takes sixteen days, rather than fourteen days, to complete such a long passage?
True, on a long passage, probably not a big deal.
However, if you could average 6knots instead of 5knots on a 60 mile crossing, that makes for a 10 hour day instead of 12 hours... and yes, there is one sailor that would care as my wife calls it quits at a 10 hour day. Anything over, and I'm withdrawing from my goodwill-and-favour piggy bank.

Point being, it may only be a knot, but it's still 20% faster.
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  #50  
Old 10-07-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
That would explain the PHRF rating of 216.
Bob, since the majority of PHRF races are relatively short, around the cans basically, would that rating be affected greatly by poor acceleration compared to it's steady state speed, once achieved?

The reason I ask is that my old quarter tonner "Fred Again" had a PHRF rating of 195 but couldn't make much over 6 knots on its best day. It would achieve hull speed in anything over 7 or 8 knots of wind though.
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Last edited by SloopJonB; 10-07-2011 at 06:53 PM.
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