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zAr 07-03-2009 01:47 PM

Need advice on boat purchase
 
I've only ever sailed on other people's (new and recent) boats where everything was in top condition. I'm looking at purchasing a used boat and a number of issues are coming up, but I can't tell just how important they are.

This boat is very clean and apparently well cared for, professionally maintained, but on its cradle for the last 7 years and barely used by a day sailor since it came out of the factory - so barely used that the freshwater tank has never been filled and the holding tank has never held anything.

First, when I mentioned I wanted a diesel mechanic on board at the sea trial to listen to the engine, the owner revealed to me that the engine vibrates at 1100-1200 RPM's. It's a Volvo Penta 2002. The owner says the engine has always been like this, he simply avoids that RPM range.

Second, the owner has now indicated to me that the sails are original (e.g. 22 years old) and also that they have tears in them, which have been professionally repaired. Can sails be 22 years old, with repaired tears, and still be good?

It was also found by the surveyor that most of the portlights and hatches leak (it was a rainy day when the surveyor did the inspection). After doing some research I'm willing to try taking on this repair project myself, it doesn't seem too difficult.

There are cracks on the port foredeck where the stanchions were pushed by unhelpful dock hands. The surveyor indicates "slightly dull" soundings around the area and indicated it was essential to repair this area to prevent core rot. Again, after a bit of research I'm not sure this is a difficult repair, though it might be difficult to keep the area cosmetically similar to the rest of the deck.

Can anyone comment on these issues and whether they are "walk away" sorts of issues? This boat is going for $4k less than what I think it's worth.

Thanks

celenoglu 07-03-2009 02:19 PM

Sails: The life of sails on a cruisng boat is approximately 7 - 8 years. This life is for a boat that sails. Although the sails are 22 yers old and there are repairs on them they can be still good if they were not used. Tears might or moght not be a pronblem .If they teared due to wind force they might not be in good condition. But if they get defective during hoisting due to mishandling they might be still in good condtion.

Leaks in ports and hatches should be easily repairable.

Stachion damge to the fiberglass can also be repaired without too much problem.

The vibration of engine in a specific level is most probably due to misalignment. You cannot feel the misalignment with moving the shaft or propellor with your hand. It should be checked and aligned.

zAr 07-03-2009 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celenoglu (Post 502487)
Sails: The life of sails on a cruisng boat is approximately 7 - 8 years. This life is for a boat that sails. Although the sails are 22 yers old and there are repairs on them they can be still good if they were not used. Tears might or moght not be a pronblem .If they teared due to wind force they might not be in good condition. But if they get defective during hoisting due to mishandling they might be still in good condtion.


The owner is saying he doesn't remember how the sails got torn. Doesn't this seem like the sort of thing one would remember, especially if one paid for the repairs?

Thanks for that helpful info, by the way.

Vasco 07-03-2009 04:09 PM

How did the sails get tears if it was lightly used? A boat that's sat on a cradle for seven years might have many problems. Did the surveyor check all the systems? There are many CS30's on the market. I'd rather look at one that's been sailed and updated for the last seven years. That 4k less might add up fast if you have to fix a lot of stuff once she's launched. The rot in the the cored decks is not an easy fix. Instruments? FW system? Pumps? Running rigging? Is this all 22 years old? As I said earlier there's lots of CS30's on the market. Keep looking.

zAr 07-03-2009 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco (Post 502498)
How did the sails get tears if it was lightly used? A boat that's sat on a cradle for seven years might have many problems. Did the surveyor check all the systems? There are many CS30's on the market. I'd rather look at one that's been sailed and updated for the last seven years. That 4k less might add up fast if you have to fix a lot of stuff once she's launched. The rot in the the cored decks is not an easy fix. Instruments? FW system? Pumps? Running rigging? Is this all 22 years old? As I said earlier there's lots of CS30's on the market. Keep looking.

Very good point re: how do lightly used sails get torn.

The surveyor did check everything and he rated it as a "Buy", even with the problems he found, such as the deck damage. He did mention that if I were going to liveaboard this boat then I might want one with hot water and showers.

Yeah, there's something to be said for a boat that has been upgraded and maintained but unfortunately those seem to be out of my price range at this time, at least for CS30's. My other options would be things like Catalina 30,
Alberg 30's, Douglas 30, etc.

Vasco 07-03-2009 06:11 PM

Good luck. You seem set on this boat. What is the hull number. I had 4498 in 1984. My first boat.

zAr 07-03-2009 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco (Post 502512)
Good luck. You seem set on this boat. What is the hull number. I had 4498 in 1984. My first boat.

Well, it just seems like the best deal I can see so far, I've been looking since winter. The question is as you said: good deal or not, what can I afford to sink into her. I guess I'm going to assume the sails are a total write-off and consider the expense.

The hull number is 4556K586 and it rolled out of the factory in 1986. Single owner.

As a former CS30 owner how much would you guess it would cost to replace the sails nowadays?

camaraderie 07-03-2009 11:34 PM

The sails will cost around $3k to replace with BASIC sails.
FX Sails Instant Online Sail Pricing

I would be VERY leery of purchasing this boat as much as I like CS30's. I think you are gonna find a lot of expensive surprises. If you got a GREAT deal and know exactly what you're getting into and can deal with the expense fine...but 7 years on the hard take a big toll and I think you are gonna have core deck and deckhouse issues as well as engine issues. These are difficult issues...not just finding a leak and stopping it!
I may be wrong but that is my impression given what you have said.

Sailormann 07-04-2009 12:00 AM

Quote:

This boat is very clean and apparently well cared for, professionally maintained,
what is the name of the yard or company that maintained it ?
Quote:

but on its cradle for the last 7 years and barely used by a day sailor since it came out of the factory - so barely used that the freshwater tank has never been filled and the holding tank has never held anything.
This is very strange. Personally I don't believe it.

Quote:

First, when I mentioned I wanted a diesel mechanic on board at the sea trial to listen to the engine, the owner revealed to me that the engine vibrates at 1100-1200 RPM's. It's a Volvo Penta 2002. The owner says the engine has always been like this, he simply avoids that RPM range.
You need to get a mechanic to look at it for sure. It could be nothing, it could be loose engine mounts or it could be something quite serious. A new engine will cost you nigh on 15 thousand by time it's installed.

Quote:

Second, the owner has now indicated to me that the sails are original (e.g. 22 years old) and also that they have tears in them, which have been professionally repaired. Can sails be 22 years old, with repaired tears, and still be good?
Good - no. Passable as back up units - possibly - depends on the tear. New sails - main and genoa - 6 thousand for basic sails from North (I just got a quote) - 10K for state of the art laminates.

Quote:

It was also found by the surveyor that most of the portlights and hatches leak (it was a rainy day when the surveyor did the inspection). After doing some research I'm willing to try taking on this repair project myself, it doesn't seem too difficult.
Not a difficult thing to repair BUT again it indicates a general lack of maintenance. This had best be a cheap, cheap boat.

Quote:

There are cracks on the port foredeck where the stanchions were pushed by unhelpful dock hands. The surveyor indicates "slightly dull" soundings around the area and indicated it was essential to repair this area to prevent core rot. Again, after a bit of research I'm not sure this is a difficult repair, though it might be difficult to keep the area cosmetically similar to the rest of the deck.
This is difficult to do yourself. If you screw it up the boat will be pretty well worthless. If the core needs replacing, having it repaired properly will definitely run over 3 and easily over 5 thousand. Then you'll have to paint - another 5 thousand for the deck alone.

Quote:

Can anyone comment on these issues and whether they are "walk away" sorts of issues? This boat is going for $4k less than what I think it's worth.
Here's what I think it's worth....

A CS30 in very good condition in the GTA sells around 50 thousand assuming it's got all the options, a barrier coat, good sails, decent electronics and is not shoal draft. An average one needing a little work runs between 30 and 40 thousand. The most you should be thinking about paying for this boat is 20 thousand. It will never be worth more than 40 thousand, and based on what you have told us - it's going to cost you about 20 thousand to get it to that point. You'd do far better to take the 40 that you will put into this boat and get something that is in great shape to begin with.

If you're looking for a boat to live on there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a Catalina 30. They have more room than a CS30 and there are excellent deals to be had on them in the US states that border the Great Lakes.

Sailormann 07-04-2009 12:07 AM

Also look at CS 33's. They sell for about the same (or less) than the 30's. They are not as fast but they are well-built and they have more interior room.


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