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  #21  
Old 08-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanr77 View Post
I am starting to see a trend in the replies though- and it is shaping some thoughts in my head. It seems that the idea (and I agree) is that I need to get on the water. So, there are plenty of small trailer able weekenders in the local area that are ready to sail. (or for the most part) and would require minimal investment to launch. I can afford both worlds- buy a 1500k daysailer, spend time on it learning the intricate art of trimming sails and such. Keep the Beachcat for when the wind is to light for anything. Find the Triton or Bristol I want- put it in the building I am constructing behind the house and restore it. In the end, all can be sold except what I choose to keep.

What are the benefits of swapping an Atomic four for an equivalent size diesel? Fuel economy?
I think you got it pretty well worked out. Another option is to put about 15,000 to 20,000 into a Catalina 27 or 30 or similar coastal boat and just do a lot of sailing. If you want a different boat after a couple of years you can sell a popular boat for what you paid for it.

The reason those in the know are not encouraging you to to buy a boat to restore is that restoring a old boat is either one of two possible projects. It is either an all consuming job where you don't have time for anything else for two or three years. Or it is a significant job that you stretch out for 5 to 10 years. Many people have done it both ways.

Based on what you have said your main goal is to sail.
Restoring an old boat is a worthwhile endeavor but is always a bigger job than a first timer figures.

Here is the math if you are a first timer no matter your experience with cars, houses etc.:

Figure the most amount of time you could possibly imagine everything taking for your proposed project. Let's say 100 days, a little more that three months. Now multiply that number by 3 so you have 300 days.
Now figure the minimum you will work on the boat per month. Lets say you are not going to do 20 days a month which would be full time but you are sure you could put in half time hours. so 10 days per month. Take that number and divide in half or 5 days.
Now divide to find out how many months the job will take. In this case 60 months or 5 years.

I will start another thread with the above calculations so you can see if others agree with my numbers.
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanr77 View Post
One further question before someone kicks me off of here for talking to much.

Why does everyone quote 15-20k to outfit a boat? I have priced new running and standing rigging, ports, sails and lines, winches and thru hulls and whatnot and it comes nowhere near $20,000. This was for a Triton by the way. As far as glassing goes, have not received any offers in the crew wanted section so i bought a bunch of glassing material and have been making molds of things in my garage..(I really need a hobby...) These materials are not even that expensive. As far as labor cost...0 (zero) I can do electrical/mechanical and wood working blindfolded. well maybe not woodworking...its hard to measure when you cant see. Am I missing something major in the costs to oufit a boat?

Oh yea, electronics. Provided nothing is serviceable in the boat I buy- GPS and depth sounders are not that expensive. 2k for a gizmo that not only tells me where I am, but will practically tell me what type of fish are under me and how to properly cook them...
There are 2 factors that bump up cost. Labor and wanting the latest and greatest. But there are some big factors that can jump in. what if you need a new winch, OK there goes a grand an a half. Your rigging really should be done by some one who knows what they are doing so that is several thousand. But yes electronics, fiberglass, and wood work are not expensive if you choose carefully and do the work yourself. You might be happy with a simple GPS chart plotter depth finder and VHF. Others need radar, a big 12 inch touch screen control panel full auto pilot, and SSB and will spend $20,000 on the electronics alone.

A lot depends on your wants, simplicity or latest and greatest. Heck a windvane is 5 grand alone but an auto tiller is only $500. So yes it adds up quickly but as long as you keep it simple you should be ok.
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2009
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Alan, if you think the line drawing you see in my avatar is absolutely the most beautiful thing you have ever seen in your life, then you are in the market for a Cape Dory 25D.

Here's one for 9900$ in Road Island. Go for it.
1984 Cape Dory 25D Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2009
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Originally Posted by Selkirk View Post
Alan, if you think the line drawing you see in my avatar is absolutely the most beautiful thing you have ever seen in your life, then you are in the market for a Cape Dory 25D.

Here's one for 9900$ in Road Island. Go for it.
1984 Cape Dory 25D Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Wait - that's a boat in your avatar? I thought it was a Rorschach test! I was seeing an angry poodle. Heh-heh.
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  #25  
Old 08-30-2009
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Wait - that's a boat in your avatar? I thought it was a Rorschach test! I was seeing an angry poodle. Heh-heh.
Lemme help ya out. Ready?

Angry Poodle


Cape Dory 25D
Now which do you think is prettier?
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  #26  
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Damn....just let a 1961 Pearson Triton go on Ebay for $1225.00 in for what looked like not to bad of a condition. There will be more I am sure but I am spending the savings I have already accumulated on sailing classes. It's a shame my University does not offer them. Thanks everyone for your perspectives on the so called "path". I plan to purchase a cheap/small weekender type boat while taking as many sailing classes that I can fit into my schedule. (cant wait till I have no schedule anymore....) I will practice what I am being taught on the small boat- only investing in what is needed to keep it sailing and safe. In the meantime, while accomplishing those two tasks, I will find the classic plastic boat i want and restore it in my shop. ( I love restoring/fixing and repairing things- when I have nothing broken I help others fix their broken stuff)

It would seem that training and actually sailing next spring would help me accomplish my goals faster and more efficiently in the long run. And I can sell the weekender (boats with trailers sell fast) when I am done with it. Though I am still looking forward to sailing the beach cat here soon.

By the way, Selkirk, I love the Cape Dory line. Though it seems that I like all the Carl Alberg designs.

Again, thanks for allowing me to vent a little while considering my options- I am sure people will be hearing more from me later on in the "how to???" section or maybe I'll just post along with my progress. Alan
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go for it

The boats you have chosen are all excellent and could be outfitted to meet your needs. The older FG boats have heavy layups and less problems with blisters. You seem sensible and capable so just do it, there are no guarantees except that you will learn what you don't know.
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  #28  
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Good luck on your dream and forget the nay sayers. You can find boats for less than 10K, they may need sprucing up, but you can do want you want when you want and still be able to start sailing.

Jerry
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  #29  
Old 08-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanr77 View Post
I plan to purchase a cheap/small weekender type boat while taking as many sailing classes that I can fit into my schedule. (cant wait till I have no schedule anymore....) I will practice what I am being taught on the small boat- only investing in what is needed to keep it sailing and safe. In the meantime, while accomplishing those two tasks, I will find the classic plastic boat i want and restore it in my shop. ( I love restoring/fixing and repairing things- when I have nothing broken I help others fix their broken stuff)
We are all looking forward to hearing about your progress.
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  #30  
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Graves Constellation, etc.

AlanR77 -- if you're still listening:

I probably bought the 1968 Graves Constellation (North Carolina?), the reputation of which blinded you. It's identical to the one I left behind when I relocated from Rhode Island to England 15 years ago. How's that for an endorsement? But not for what you want -- nothing like full headroom, for example.

You asked why your short list tends toward long keels. Probably because of your high ballast ratio requirement (a very good idea, by the way). Major production boats tend to follow design trends which are "encouraged" by international handicap measurement rating rules.

The IOR (International Offshore Rule) was introduced in 1970 and caused leading designers to gravitate to less stable models to gain a rating advantage. This trend lasted throughout the 70s, 80s and early 90s until the IMS (International Measurement System) began to encourage stiffer designs (again).

An Ameircan pre-IOR yacht might turn turtle at about 120 - 125 degrees of heel. IOR designs came to turn turtle at 115 or even 110 degrees. The Pearson Triton is a good example of a pre-IOR yacht and, by the way, is a very good choice for your requirements (at the smaller end of options). It has full headroom, for example. As an older design, it will have a longer keel. With the introduction of the IOR, all designers moved to fin keels and spade rudders.

A Triton is a very well built boat. Built in the same period as the Constellation, like the Connie it shuld have a bullet-proof hull layup and fairly sensible construction. It will not leave a 60-foot strip of rubber, though, but do you really care?

By the way, that 1968 Connie (hull #17 of 27) I shipped over here (England) from North Carolina is documented as a 1965 and has been SERIOUSLY neglected. I have a lot of work to do, including replacing some sections of the plywood deck, but then I knew it would be that way and I'm actually enthusiastic about the restoration project I've begun. At least the fiberglass hull will last longer than you and I; no problems there. The price finally dropped to $5000, which in sterling is no more than my teenager's second-hand, hot rod trapeze dinghy. The Connie is sort of the MG TC of 30 foot yachts... or maybe the MGA. I love it.

Ken on the North Sea Coast
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