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post #11 of 57 Old 09-10-2009 Thread Starter
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OK so I received some information from the seller:

"The boat can be inspected at White Rocks marina, just tell me when you are there and I will contact Brandi,the overseer. I will need you email to send you the survey report. A number of other prospective buyers have reacted but I would prefer to deal with you as you have shown genuine interest. The title is with me, it is still in the name of the previous owner and the name of the buyer/buying price is left open. The process of registering it in Holland just took too much time. As it is still registered in Florida, I do not expect problems in transferring, although I am not very familiar with the intricacies of US rules in this. Should there be any I will try my utmost to help you out. "

Umm, if the boat is in someone else's name how can he sell it to me? As I have never bought a boat before I don't even know the process as to what happens. If I buy a loaf of bread I pay money and take home some bread. If i am buying a boat do I pay the money then wait for the title to be sent to me, then register it? Being Canadian how do I get the title transferred to Canada or do I even have to bother? Do I have to check if there is a lien against the boat? Is there such a thing as outstanding marina fee's?

Sorry for all the questions but everyone here always seems so helpful and I am slightly overwhelmed...

Robert
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post #12 of 57 Old 09-10-2009
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keep asking questions

From what the seller said, he purchased the boat but did not register it in his name (see comment about title). I certainly do not know how Dutch maritime law works but when I bought my boat in the US, the first step was to have its US documentation cancelled. I needed to do this before getting the boat federally registered in Canada - they wanted to see the document removing US registration and the bill of sale. If you wanted to get a provincial license instead (eg an ON number or that for another province) call those folks and see what documentation they require. It might be easier - you only need the title transfer and bill of sale.

When you bring the boat into Canada you have to pay GST and PST and also, because it was not built in a NAFTA country, 9.5% duty. Your shipping estimate might be a bit low, although if you could wait around until the trucker had a reverse trip it would help with the cost. Bringing it back by water next year would take about 2 weeks plus the time needed to get it back into service. This would give you a good chance to get to know the boat. The challenging part of the trip is the New Jersey coast where there are only a couple of decent inlets from the ocean. Otherwise it is an overnight.

I think it is worth pursuing a bit since the price is very good and Contests are certainly rugged, solid boats.

Back home on Lake Ontario after something over 36,000 nm circumnavigator. Not surprisingly there is a lot of stuff I want to get done on Ainia both cosmetically and functionally. Getting an early start so it will be ready to go for next summer (Lake Superior?).
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post #13 of 57 Old 09-10-2009 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
From what the seller said, he purchased the boat but did not register it in his name (see comment about title). I certainly do not know how Dutch maritime law works but when I bought my boat in the US, the first step was to have its US documentation cancelled. I needed to do this before getting the boat federally registered in Canada - they wanted to see the document removing US registration and the bill of sale. If you wanted to get a provincial license instead (eg an ON number or that for another province) call those folks and see what documentation they require. It might be easier - you only need the title transfer and bill of sale.

When you bring the boat into Canada you have to pay GST and PST and also, because it was not built in a NAFTA country, 9.5% duty. Your shipping estimate might be a bit low, although if you could wait around until the trucker had a reverse trip it would help with the cost. Bringing it back by water next year would take about 2 weeks plus the time needed to get it back into service. This would give you a good chance to get to know the boat. The challenging part of the trip is the New Jersey coast where there are only a couple of decent inlets from the ocean. Otherwise it is an overnight.

I think it is worth pursuing a bit since the price is very good and Contests are certainly rugged, solid boats.
Hello;

I received an email from the seller and he said the same thing, I would need to register the boat in my own country on the basis of written proof of cancellation of the title in the US system. He said that he didn't cancel the title since selling it in the US would be easier with a US title as opposed to a title in Holland. The seller said that they can obtain written proof of cancellation. They also sent me an insurance survey done 10 months ago.

Can I post part of the survey here or is that against the rules?

Thanks;

Robert
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post #14 of 57 Old 09-10-2009
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Just looked at the pics on ebay. It doesn't look like it has been abused. A bit weathered on deck, but the engine is clean, interior looks good, even the head is clean including the head hoses. Contest builds a good boat. I can imagine circumstances where the owner would want to sell even at a low price, especially when he is an ocean away. Looks like a good deal to me.
Brian
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post #15 of 57 Old 09-10-2009 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Just looked at the pics on ebay. It doesn't look like it has been abused. A bit weathered on deck, but the engine is clean, interior looks good, even the head is clean including the head hoses. Contest builds a good boat. I can imagine circumstances where the owner would want to sell even at a low price, especially when he is an ocean away. Looks like a good deal to me.
Brian
Hello mitiempo;

After reading through the survey it seems more and more like what I am looking for. It needs some :
  • Electrical Work - Something I can do on my own.
  • Cosmetic Work - Something a little sweat equity will fix.
  • A small crack in the rudder - Cosmetic from what I have read.
  • Depth / Speed Monitors - Can install new myself.

But it is just that, no Radar, no Solar Panels, no Wind Generator, no Water maker, no Windless... I can outfit the boat as I see fit and as I need to depending on where I am going. I can scour for used equipment if needed as people keep updating to the latest and greatest.

But there are a couple things that worry me...

Hull Interior
Mostly good, except, some fiberglass bonds under galley separating, also,
bonds under forward end of dinette separating in addition to bonds on floor timbers separating.
I don't even know what this is...

Mast & Rigging
Correct installation of spreaders. Spreaders should bisect angle made with shrouds.
I am going to have to take down the rigging to fix this and then put it back up?

It has new sails and the seller has done a lot of work on the fuel system. The seller said this about the engine :

"As for the engine, Yanmar has a great reputation for simplicity and reliability. Because I did not launch the boat I never had the opportunity to test the engine. It needs to be in the water to be started. I have turned the engine over by hand to make sure that the pistons were not stuck and decompression was OK. Everything seems fine but I can't guarantee she wil start immediately after two years of not being used My idea was to open the valve cover first and crank it over to see if the valves are lifting, and to be careful not to flood the engine at first , because that might block the pistons and cause damage."

If the engine runs fine for a couple hours around the dock and the sails are all listed as new as well as the rigging then I don't see why I couldn't sail it back to Toronto with a little care and a new depth / speed monitor. Unless the Spreader issue will prevent me from sailing.

The seller has been pretty up front about everything so far. I wonder if I can get to Boston this weekend to see the boat in person...
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Originally Posted by krozet View Post
But there are a couple things that worry me...

Hull Interior
Mostly good, except, some fiberglass bonds under galley separating, also,
bonds under forward end of dinette separating in addition to bonds on floor timbers separating.
I don't even know what this is...

...
This is of concern.. these issues likely refer to the fiberglass tabbing that was originally used to secure these parts to the hull. Such damage is usually the result of a fairly serious grounding (at some speed) Properly done, this is an expensive repair.. In the meantime the hull's stiffness and integrity may be seriously compromised. (worst case scenario...)

Perhaps there's a reason, besides desperation, for the seller's willingness to accept such an under-market bid...

Ron

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post #17 of 57 Old 09-10-2009
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Spreaders are usually kept at the correct angle by the bracket that attaches them to the mast. I don't think that it is a real problem but definitely should be fixed. The fix can be done with the mast up in any case. As far as the separated bonds does the survey in any way suggest how they occured? If from a collision that sounds serious as Faster said, however I once owned a boat where the same thing occured and it was not from collision, just age and some moisture which didn't help. Rebonding with epoxy and biaxial tape can produce a fix that is better than new if not too serious to start with. As for the engine you can start it when hauled out by taking the hose off the salt water intake and putting it in a bucket of water.
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post #18 of 57 Old 09-10-2009 Thread Starter
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Here is what the survey says, my apoligies for the format as I had to cut and paste from a PDF. I won't post the whole thing but the Hull Exterior and Deck / Interior sections. There is no sign of structural damage or an impact according to the survey...

I. HULL EXTERIOR

TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION: Fiberglass reinforced polyester resin, hand laid up in a female mold.

GENERAL IMPRESSION: Hull exterior appeared reasonably well maintained.

CONDITION OF FINISH: Paint finish in fair to good condition; some oxidation; some touch-ups (hand painted); antifouling paint appeared to be fairly fresh; has good adhesion.

INSPECTION OF HULLSIDES AND BOTTOM: Inspected with the vessel hauled out; no indication of structural damage, voids, or delaminations.

THRU-HULL FITTINGS: Good as observed.

BALLAST: Appeared well secured.

PROPELLER AND SHAFT: Two bladed propeller; stainless steel shaft; all in good condition; cutless bearing in good condition.

RUDDER AND RELATED UNDERWATER FITTINGS: Rudder fittings in good condition; rudder has split in forward lower edge of blade below lower attachment point, otherwise, good condition as observed.

BOARDING LADDER: None

GALVANIC PROTECTION: New zinc anode on propeller shaft.

REMARKS: Refer to “Repairs and Corrections.”

II. DECK AND HOUSE

TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION: Fiberglass reinforced polyester resin, hand laid up in a female mold with core material used in key areas for panel stiffness.

GENERAL IMPRESSION: Deck molding appeared neglected.

CONDITION OF FINISH: Paint and gelcoat on the vessel’s deck molding heavily crazed and abraded; finish on exterior teak trim deteriorated; finish on hardware fair.

STRUCTURAL CONDITION: No indication of structural damage.

HATCHES/COMPANIONWAY: Good condition.

RAILS/LIFELINES: Bow pulpit, stern pulpit, and stanchions installed; lifelines not installed at time of inspection; bow pulpit lightly bent.

DECK FITTINGS AND HARDWARE: Good condition; well installed; at time of inspection, handholds were not installed.

REMARKS: No repairs and corrections deemed necessary

III. HULL INTERIOR

GENERAL IMPRESSION: Appeared reasonably well maintained.

CONDITION OF FINISH: Finish on woodwork in general very good.

STRUCTURAL CONDITION: Mostly good, except, some fiberglass bonds under galley separating, also, bonds under forward end of dinette separating in addition to bonds on floor timbers separating.

PORTS: Good condition.

HANDHOLDS: Some installed.

INTERIOR STEPS: Secured

BILGE: A little dirty.

KEEL BOLTS: Mostly covered with internal cement ballast; visible on forward end of the vessel; good condition.

UNSECURED FURNITURE/EQUIPMENT: None observed.

REMARKS: Refer to “Repairs and Corrections.”

REPAIRS AND CORRECTIONS

I. HULL EXTERIOR
A. Repair crack in leading edge of rudder blade.

III. HULL INTERIOR
A.Repair damaged fiberglass bonds under galley, forward end of dinette, and on floor timbers.

There is more to the survey but these sections should have shown any structural damage found on the boat. An impact of a serious nature should have shown up as more than just fiberglass bonds separating?
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post #19 of 57 Old 09-10-2009 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisingdream View Post
Getting boat to Toronto... enjoy a trip thru the erie canal.
I checked into this option, I cant make it... With the mast up the boat is 44' from deck to top, taller from the waterline. The New York State Canal website lists quite a few fixed bridges of 14' The depth is good and it would definitaly be a nice trip. Would de-masting the boat be an option if the engine is strong? It would be a pain in the butt to get it reset to sail across lake Ontario just to haul her out for the season. Would motor sailing across the lake be a bad idea if the weather is clear?
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There is more to the survey but these sections should have shown any structural damage found on the boat. An impact of a serious nature should have shown up as more than just fiberglass bonds separating?
I did say that that would have been a worst case scenario... but it's worth keeping in mind.. It's not that unusual, after such a grounding, that the external "damage" is cosmetically repaired (and therefore difficult to spot after the fact) while the expensive, difficult part of the job goes undone.

The other factor for you, is that at that price even if you end up getting a first class repair done (that could run as much as $10K I'm guessing - again - worst case) you're still into a now-decent boat at well under market. So then the question is do you want that inconvenience and delay in the use of her?

Ron

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