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  #21  
Old 09-23-2009
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Husband's family had their Catalina 22 out on Lake Michigan when he was a kid. Said the waves were pretty big and he remembers the bow dipping way into the water, springing up about 5 ft into the air and coming back down, so the waves can certainly get pretty big. At least it sounds big to me, but I'm a newbie to sailing.
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  #22  
Old 09-23-2009
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Quote:
You might want to check out John Vigors 20 small boats to take you anywhere and add an Albin Vega and International Folkboat to your list. I am looking for a boat in a similar category to you and know your constraints. I have a V-8 explorer and probably have a slightly larger towing capacity than you and know of no boat in this category that will be towed comfortably by anything less than a 1/2 ton pickup with a 3/4 ton recommended. Figure aroun 5-6 thousand pounds for the boat, 7-8 thousand on the trailer.

Also concider this boat while being on a trailer is not trailerable. It will take a major effort to get this thing in the water and ready to sail figure 2+ hours. Not something you want to drop into the lake for an afternoon sail. Other thoughts may be a Montgomery 17 or a ranger 23, both light enough to tow, and capable sailors.
I actually have that book (it is a great help). What I would like to do is find a boat that is bigger and more seaworthy than my C22, but, that I can still launch from a trailer (possibly with great effort once per year). I wouldn't expect that very many boats in this range would be good for regular trailer sailing. So, the trick is to find as much boat as I can, that still has moderate draft, and probably won't get me killed if caught in a big T-storm in the middle of Lake Michigan.

Here is my expanded list:

Bristol 24 -- Draft 3'5". Standing headroom
Pacific Seacraft Dana 24 -- Draft 3"10", maybe a bit deep
Bayfield 25 -- Draft 2'11" !, too tender?
Cape Dory 25D -- Draft 3'6". 'Slouching' headroom
Pacific Seacraft 25 -- Draft 3'3". Maybe not enough headroom.
Vancouver 25 --Draft 3’10”
Cape Dory 26--Draft 3'7".
Voyager 26--Draft 3'4". Probably too hard to find.
Albin Vega 27--Draft 3’10” Maybe too deep, but, I like it.
Nor’Sea 27--Draft 3’10. Designed for trailering.
Bayfield 29 -- Draft: 3’6”! Like the head in place of V berth.
Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30 --Draft 3'8". Maybe too much wood to care for.
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2009
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All those listed, with the possible exception of the last 2, could easily be transported home for the winter on a suitable trailer with the right tow vehicle. Moving it twice a year is a lot different than visiting the launch ramp regularly to daysail. Looks like some good choices.
Brian
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  #24  
Old 09-25-2009
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There are a couple of Ariels for sale in the lake michigan area. Ariels are good solid boats, well liked by their owners.

I feel that trailer 'launchable' depends more on draft than other considerations. 4ft being about the max that most ramps can handle.
Torsion half axles, would easily allow the keel support on the trailer to be within 6" of the ground as opposed to over a foot for a regular axle, so the needed ramp depth would be a bit easier to find.


Though I've thought about inflatable pontoons on the trailer, or hard floats that can be let out on reels so you could float the boat/trailer out to deeper water then 'sink' the trailer from under the boat and reel it in. That way, as long as you had deep water nearby, all you'd need at the ramp would be two or three feet of water. It would open up a whole lot of launch areas.

Ken.
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Old 09-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
I wouldn't expect that very many boats in this range would be good for regular trailer sailing.
Sounds like a good plan on a good list of boats. Also with only an annual launch and recovery driving around in an undersized vehicle is less of an issue. Since you are going to only launch once a year, why worry about draft or raising the mast yourself? Based on the cost of your shopping list, I can assume you are not poor. While adding an extra expense at the beginning and end of the season, getting a crane to launch your boat would allow you to not worry about draft or raising the mast yourself and expand your choices to deeper draft boats. Even if you could raise the mast with a small crew and a system it may be worth the insurance to have a crane to make sure it is done in safety to the mast and the crew.
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  #26  
Old 09-29-2009
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Sounds like a good plan on a good list of boats. Also with only an annual launch and recovery driving around in an undersized vehicle is less of an issue. Since you are going to only launch once a year, why worry about draft or raising the mast yourself? Based on the cost of your shopping list, I can assume you are not poor. While adding an extra expense at the beginning and end of the season, getting a crane to launch your boat would allow you to not worry about draft or raising the mast yourself and expand your choices to deeper draft boats. Even if you could raise the mast with a small crew and a system it may be worth the insurance to have a crane to make sure it is done in safety to the mast and the crew.
That is a good point. I would be stretching the budget a bit with some of the boats listed. I just want to avoid getting crushed by the ongoing expenses of owning a larger boat. Considering boats with draft greater than 3'6" might also allow me to find a boat that costs less (that would pay for years of launching and recovering). I think I am just trying to find ways to rationalize buying a bigger boat
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  #27  
Old 09-29-2009
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Any style of MORC boat. Small and seaworthy. Not to mention, a faster PHRF rating than 240+.
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  #28  
Old 09-29-2009
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Is the C22 really less seaworthy than these other boats? I can see that it's less comfortable- but is it really less safe- and what about the C22 makes it so?

In defense of the C22, it seems like it's heavily rigged for its displacement, and the hull is extremely thick hand-laid fiberglass. It also has small windows, all of the hatches can be well sealed and are made as strong as the deck itself, and able to be fastened securely. A lot of the parts are the same as used on the Catalina 27 which has almost 3x the displacement.

According to "Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Handling, and Gear By John Vigor" a bluewater boat should have the breaking strength of one lower shroud plus the upper shroud equal to 1.4x boat displacement. The C22 rigging is sized to about 2x boat displacement.

I don't have a lot of experience, but I'm hoping to do a lot of coastal island hopping in my C22, and I'd like to think the C22 would at least stay afloat through a decent storm if worst came to worst.
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  #29  
Old 09-29-2009
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I don't think I'd call a Catalina 27 or the Catalina 30 "offshore capable" boats either without modifications. I'd start with that overlarge companionway and continue on to the interior cabinets that are held in place with just a few screws. There are many other items as well. In the last few weeks another asked what should be changed on a Catalina 36 for offshore use. A Catalina 36 is a lot more boat in almost all ways than a Catalina 22. Here is a post by Mainesail explaining why as his post was excellent.
Brian
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  #30  
Old 10-15-2009
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great lakes are deadly lakes

growing up on the shores of the indiana dunes, and watching the undertow take people..... then growing and watching lakes take boats.... i would step wisely.... i would suggest looking to the Mac for suggestions... but lest you want a pocket crusier check the Jclass if you have the scratch.... i know belmont harbour is expensive, so you might be able to get more boat by mooring a wee bit outside the city
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