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vitor 10-02-2009 11:04 AM

looking for my first boat
 
need some advices from these expert sailors.
first I am new on sailing boats just finished certifications 101 103 104,learning a lot from this site. My cruising plans are sailing with family Caribbean,Brazil,Pacific coast... My budget is $160K including refitting . I am looking for boats with ..
40 to 45 ft
bridge clearance of 56
water min of 100 gl and fuel min of 50 gl
center board draft 4... to...
Those are the boats on my list please need some comments on why i should not buy or it is a good choice.
morgan
passport
calibre
tartan
sabre
moody
any other that i should look for, am i on the right track?
Thank you very much for any comments.

aferlazzo 10-02-2009 12:46 PM

You may not want to hear this, but I don't think you are on the right track, because you are looking for too big and complicated a boat for your first boat. Lots of people make this mistake and end up not using the boat as they intended (or worse), simply because they lack experience in handling and maintaining such a large boat. You mention refitting.... you need to realize that even if you pay others to do the refitting, you will still need to make many decisions about what to fix or change, how to do it, what yard to use, who to hire to do it, how to monitor their work, whether or not they are delivering for the money you are paying them, etc.

My recommendation would be to start out with something 35 feet or less that is maybe 10 - 15 years old and well maintained, as judged by the best surveyor you can find. Then enjoy that boat while you become an experienced sailor, cruiser and boatowner. There is a lot to said for coastal cruising which is what you would be doing with a smaller boat. And if you are near the Caribbean, a lot of boats in this category would be very capable of cruising there.

Spend maybe $30-40k on this first boat and sock away the rest of your money until it's time to get the dream boat.

Learn how to maintain and fix the boat yourself. Get one with a good diesel engine and learn how to maintain and fix that engine. If you ever do long distance voyaging, you will have no one to rely upon but yourself to fix things when you are thousands of miles from assistance.

Then after a few years of this you will be better prepared to decide whether to buy that $160k boat to take you over the horizon.

vitor 10-02-2009 03:16 PM

thank aferlazzo. these is my thing, originally i wanted a benneteau but according to what i read it is not a boat for my cruising plans,regarding maintain and fix a boat:, i can do electrical ,plumbing,wood work and my brother works for contender which is a open fish power boat for 16 years he can do a lot on a boat from lamination to electrical and i can also buy most of the equipment at very big discounts(engine,electronics...). are they complicated because they are old, lot things to fix? or the way they sail?Another thing Buying a boat that i am not going to keep for long when is time to sell i will lose money and probably would take to long to sale .So , my thinking is buy something that i will use for long time and learn from the beginning with it.What do you think about beneteau??

jephotog 10-02-2009 05:34 PM

Kind of reminded me of my recent aquisition
 
I had the bug up my butt to try something new, so on an impulse I ran out and bought a mandolin. But if I do not like playing it it is $150 I can afford to loose.

I have to agree to aferlazzo on this one. If you have just taken your first sailing courses and know nothing about boat ownership or whether or not your family will be scared the first time the boat heals past 10 degrees, a 40+ foot boat and a 160k is a lot to invest in an experiment of boat ownership.

The expense and complications of owning a boat of 40+ feet is magnified many times over that of one 30 feet. You could buy a Catalina 30 (not necessarily saying you should buy as C30 just an example) for less than 20k to learn to sail on while you learn about maintenance and what you like in a boat. If in the end of a few years you could give the boat away and be ahead of the learning curve and expense of buying a massive boat.

A smaller boat would be:
Cheaper to buy
Cheaper to own
Easier to fix
Easier to sail, without a large and knowledgeable crew.
Put the rest in the bank, no stock market, no, under your mattress so you can buy a bigger boat when your family also think visiting Brazil by sailboat is a good idea.

vitor 10-02-2009 07:32 PM

funny that you talked about mandolin, i play mandolin for about 30 years.
well these is not that i just got up and decided to buy a boat it is a dream of mine for 40 years i have being windsurfing,kitesurfing,sailing laser since 15 years old (i'm 49)i've being postpone these for a long time lots of reasons (school,wife school,3 kids....it has been a long plan.

CalebD 10-03-2009 12:28 AM

Donde esta?
I have only sailed on a Bene First 51' for 400 nm offshore. The boat had crossed the Atlantic several times before I got on it. I believe that the 'First's are racing models and the 51 I was on is an ocean racing boat. Not so terrible, in fact, a decent boat.
I like the other makes on your short list and with your budget you are looking to buy used. I also like older boats for less money but that is just me. You have to satisfy yourself ultimately.
Have you considered the rig? Sloop vs. Ketch vs. Yawl etc? Ketch and Yawl usually have shorter masts and heel a little less but may not point up wind as well.
I bet you could pick up a certain Allied Seawind Ketch that I sailed on which is in Miami for under 15K. It is pretty bare bones but has nice sails and a working engine.
There are a lot of boats out there.
Good luck.

jephotog 10-03-2009 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitor (Post 528419)
funny that you talked about mandolin, i play mandolin for about 30 years.

Mandolin player huh, guess you can't be all bad. Tell you what if you get a 40 foot boat and it is overwhelming, I have a nice Fender Mando i will trade you. I am embarrassed to admit how much of my time is spent getting my 14 foot boat ready for a big cruise.

Waltthesalt 10-03-2009 10:03 PM

I agree with the smaller boat. You'll learn more about sailing by far with a small boat. I recommend taking sailing classes on a keel boat in the 22 to 24 ft range. Then get a boat that's similar and sail it for a few years. Consider renting a big boat for a cruising a fer times before you buy one. My biggest boat was a Hallberg Rassy 41. You've got no idea how expensive a boat like that can be to maintain an operate. I've been sailing all my life and one thing for sure is that the bigger it is the less you'll sail it and the more time and money you'll spend on it (squared). There is only one exception.. it your going to live on it then it's like buying a house you can move around.

xort 10-03-2009 10:58 PM

je & after

you are making generalities that do not fit everyone.
I bought my first sailboat last spring. I did not take any asa classes nor any other sailing classes. I had about 10 days on the water on other peoples sailboats over my lifetime. I did own a 26' power boat for 15 years.

I'm doing very well sailing my Endeavour 42. At times I'm not happy with some aspects of the boat but ALL boats are a compromise and I quickly remind myself why I accepted the compromises I did. I researched sailboats for 2 years before buying this one. I have been putting in a lot of work on repairs and upgrades. There are no major issues with my boat, only routine stuff that needs tending to and some upgrades in electronics, like a radar & chartplotter.

We'll be heading out for long term livaboard cruising next year.

Vitor

Do you really need to stick with such a short mast? That will limit your selection, probably to ketch rigged boats only.
Keep in mind that you will find 5 times as many things to attend to as you think at the time of purchase. Do not discount the effort to do something as simple as changing out old hoses. I have not had to put in tons of money but I'm doing all the work myself. I have a lot of hours into simple stuff like the hoses. Save at least $30,000 of that money for the refit/upgrades. Plus taxes, survey, insurance, etc. It does add up!

Last thing...do not be in a hurry. Take your time and do the research on different boats, rigs, equipment, and go look at a lot of boats.

TQA 10-04-2009 10:19 AM

Why the 56 foot mast limitation. Why do you need a CB. This means that you are looking at a very restricted subset of boats?

You say you plan to sail Caribbean,Brazil,Pacific coast. Where are you starting from? None of the above require a 56 foot mast and a CB.


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