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  #31  
Old 10-16-2009
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Andrew got a pic of the actual boat?
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2009
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Here's the link with the best pics.

Boater's Resources: Boating, marinas, accessories, equipment, and supplies at discounts youíll love!

This link is to a different boat of the same design - shows it under sail.

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com
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  #33  
Old 10-16-2009
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my god, she's beautiful.
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  #34  
Old 10-16-2009
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James hit the nail on the head when he questioned the idea of doing a survey before a sail trial. Sail trials serve two purposes. First of all they provide information for your subjective review of the boat by which I mean, it helps you decide whether you personally like the way this boat sails. It also provides objective information on whether the gear and hardware works properly, the sails set properly, and the deck layout works efficiently.

It is only when you a sure that you want to buy the boat that you do the survey.

With regards to how boats like these sail. I have not sailed a Triangle but have sailed other designs this era. Typically they are a real mixed bag. They tend to be tender, wet and not all that had to sink. Most boats of this era lacked sef-bailing cockpits and were tender enough that they required vigilence, skill and care to sail safely.

Boats like these were notorious for developing wicked weather helm in a breeze. it is not so much a matter of the large mainsail as it is a function of the large keel angles these boats were sailed at and the moment between center of drag and the center of effort.

If truly ortiginal the rigs on boats like these were fagile, thier hardware high friction, low mechanical advantage and a bit fragile as well.
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 10-16-2009 at 04:56 PM.
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  #35  
Old 10-16-2009
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I agree with Jeff that if the hull is a completely new (when redone 15 yrs ago) cold molded structure it can be an awesome boat. If on the other hand it was cold molded over the original run. Comparing conventional fibreglass to a modern cold molded/epoxy boat the wood boat should be lighter and stiffer than the glass boat. If you use exotics like carbon fibre extensively at great cost and core the glass boat with foam or honeycomb it can be lighter again, but not for anywhere near the cost of the cold molded boat. Maintenance to a properly built cold molded boat should be similar to a glass boat but problems like blistering and osmosis won't exist. As far as brightwork, just because the boat is wood doesn't mean you need varnished wood everywhere outside in the elements. One of the best examples of modern wood boats is Vortex, built in the 1990 by Brooklin Boat Yard. She is a Knud Reimers design known in fibreglass as the Swede 52. When building her Steve at Brooklin Boat Yard discussed weight with Knud Reimers who was disappointed that the originals in glass were heavier than the designed weight. The hull of Vortex weighed less and she had more ballast I believe. Sailed very well and raced very credibly.
Were I in a position to build a custom boat I would choose cold molded construction first, aluminun second and fibreglass a distant third. Fibreglass is an awesome material for series production but that involves compromises. In the class racing scenario as Faster said the glass boats are built to the same weight as their wood sisters so the racing is fair so this really doesn't count when comparing materials.
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  #36  
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Jeff - I was afraid you'd say something like that...but I suppose it's why I asked the question, so thank you.

Looking on the bright side, I suppose there's nothing like the threat of sinking to help you focus on improving your skills. The owner did say that he rebuilt the cockpit 3 years ago and made it self bailing...
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I grew up on wood boats large and small. When fiberglass came along it was a gift from heaven. I recall a several day race in a 44 ft. wood yawl where the pounding opened up some seams and we bailed our way accross the finish line up to our ankles in water. It also seemed that there was always a deck leak right above your bunk.
I think you'll not see any difference in speed and performance that isn't driven by the design not the material. In class boat racing e.g. Lightnigs, Folkboats etc. the class takes measures to keep performance even. High tech racing machines using wood saturated epoxy construction were turnining our some very light wood hulls. More recently kevlar and other composite construction have super ceede this technology.
Maintenance is the issue. For a planked wood boat the saying was If you have to ask how much you can't afford it. Cold molded and some plywood have knocked that work down a lot. A planked or clinker boat however has to be a labor of love if the boat's other than a dinghy.
If you go wood get a surveyor who specialied in wood and has solid credentials.... ask around at the boat yards and insurers.
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  #38  
Old 10-17-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
This is a bad generalization to make. A cold-molded wood boat would probably be lighter than a fiberglass boat of the same design. Cold-molded wood boats, depending on the construction, may in fact, be lighter and stiffer than a fiberglass boat. To see this, just look at some of the cold-molded dinghies and kayaks out there...

We may have moved passed this issue in this thread already (I've been away for a couple of days), but I wanted to respond. Enough posters here disagreed with my statement that all other things being equal, a fiberglass boat would be lighter than a wood boat. I still stand by that if we are talking about a plank on frame design. However, I think I was wrong about the cold molded versions.

My original basis for making the statement was my recollection of some material in Dave Garr's book "The Nature of Boats". I recalled a discussion of various building materials where Dave opined that pound for pound, wood was the best building material (assuming a cold molded construction). However, I thought I remembered that he described that on a strict weight unit measurement, fiberglass was lighter (although less stiff) than wood. Hence, my conclusion that a fiberglass hull would be lighter than a cold molded wood hull. This of conclusion ignores the weight of other necessary structures in the hull (stringers in fiberglass, bulkheads in the cold-molded boat), but I thought still a valid, broad generalization.

In reading some of the comments, I decided to go back and check the book to see if I remembered it correctly. I did, but only sort of. The table I remembered seeing that showed douglas fir as heavier than e-glass on a lg/cu.ft. basis didn't say that; it actually showed douglas fir as having greater tensile strength on a lb/cu.ft basis. Another table shows clearly a simple weight comparison: fir is 32 lbs/cu.ft, and e-glass is 95 lbs./cu.ft. So if we are going to accept a simplistic generalization about the relative weights of fiberglass vs. coldmolded boats, it is clear that those who said cold molded is lighter, the facts seem to bear that out.
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  #39  
Old 10-22-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewMac View Post
Jeff - thanks for you comments. As I understand it, the hull is "western red cedar laminars with GRP epoxy sheathing" and the work was done by Gordon Swift of Swift Custom Boats (means nothing to me).

If anyone here knows a good surveyor in or near Annapolis, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks again for everyone's input and feedback.
Andrew
Work done by Gordon Swift is quite highly regarded in the wooden boat world, so I'm guessing the survey will reveal the work was done sensibly and to a high standard. If you haven't already been through the survey, I might recommend looking for a surveyor who specializes in wooden boats. Alas, many surveyor's lack experience in this area.

-Colin
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Old 10-23-2009
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I found a great surveyor who was very knowledgable about wood. While he was not familiar with Grodon Swift, he came back and said that the boat was very sound and the work done to a high standard. The guy who runs our boatyard in maine was familiar with Swift and said he would expect nothing but exceptional work from him. Think we made a deal on the boat last night - I can't believe it's only October and I have to wait this long to get her in the water!
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