Yet another wet deck - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-08-2009
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,653
Thanks: 160
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Yet another wet deck

This is the boat.
]http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Morgan-321---Recent-Survey-[/font]
2054206/Westbrook/CT/United-States.
It has been cared for with many upgrades and well maintained and replaced parts. We did notice that if you work the the bow pulpit back and forth water squirts out of the plate fastened to the deck. So there must be water intrusion in the deck. Walking carefully around the deck I could detect no sponginess.
I told the potential buyer three things:
1. A large percentage of people would not consider this boat at any prices as the cost of a deck job is higher than the cost of the boat.[/font]
2. Some people would use the deck problem to get a cheap price and figure that it will still sail with a soft deck for many years. The boat is asking 20k offer 12k sail for 5 years and whatever you sell it for you sell it for. You will probably get more that 0 for it and it is a cheap way to get a roomy boat.[/font]
3. If you remove the pulpit and drill a 1" hole under each stanchion and dig out core and pot and re-bed pulpit the problem will not be fixed but at least arrested.[/font]
4. If it is let go long enough the deck will compress the sides will flex and rig will fall down. I think the boat has years to go before a safety situation like that is likely. The deck has been painted and the surface has thousands of hairline cracks. This will continue and the deck will continue to look worse and worse until it has to be repainted but the new paint will only last a couple of seasons before it cracks too.

Do you think I gave it to him straight?

Last edited by davidpm; 11-08-2009 at 02:57 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 11-08-2009
Stillraining's Avatar
Handsome devil
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LaConner,Washington
Posts: 3,477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough
As an Arrow.......................I think you have convinced them to continue on with their search....I hope you don't work on commission..


Just Kidding!!..

OH....btw....your link say page no longer available.
__________________
"Go Simple...Go Large"

Relationships are everything to me..everything else in life are just tools to enhance them.


The purchase price of a boat is just the admittance fee to the dance...you still have to spend money on the girl...so court one with something going for her with pleasing and desirable character traits others desire as well... or you could find yourself in a disillusioned relationship contemplating an expensive divorce.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 11-08-2009
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,012
Thanks: 0
Thanked 64 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
I think he means this one. Looks nice in the listing.

1979 Morgan 321 RECENT SURVEY Sail Boat For Sale -
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 11-08-2009
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,653
Thanks: 160
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I think he means this one. Looks nice in the listing.

1979 Morgan 321 RECENT SURVEY Sail Boat For Sale -
Yep that's it.

Here is my preliminary findings I am sending to my new guy:
Morgan 321, 1978

Overall look
The owner took obvious pride in this boat. His documentation is though. The bilge is bone dry dusty.
Sails are in good shape, lots of new plumbing.
Significant rust on the engine but it looks like it was cared for. New fuel filter, no obvious leaks.
It comes with recent canvas with adequate depth, speed and auto helm.

In short for a 30 year old boat it shows very well


Problem Areas
1. Stem head fitting appears to be missing some trim.
2. There is no bow roller.
3. Bow pulpit connections to deck show water seepage indicating water in deck
4. Port stanchion in deck shows water seepage indicating water in deck.
5. Deck and topsides was painted but stills shows extensive crazing and some damage to nonskid
6. Traveler on cabin top is only a single purchase. It is probably not usable.
7. Winches are not self tailing
8. Starboard chain plate bolt shows start of rust implying deck core wetness or deck leak even though deck hardware shows recent rebedding.
9. Forepeak cushions are worn out
10. Two fixed port lights are crazed
11. Engine is a raw water cooled style that requires more maintenance and expense
12. Bilge pump is loose bracket is disconnected.
13. Sump pump in shower is old and installed improperly (wire nuts)
14. Raw diesel smell by diesel tank, recommend replacing tank.
15. Running rigging will require replacement soon.
16. Only lunch hook anchor visible, no adequate ground tackle.
17. Inadequate ventilation for CNG tank


Items not understood or not found.
1. Keel bolts are not accessible (could not find out how the keel was attached and if keel bolts exist. It may be an encapsulated keel)
2. The dodger zippers imply connecting canvas from dodger to bimini that was not seen on the boat.
3. Some safety check items found like life jackets but not all.

This is not an official survey but a simple half hour walk through. If you are serious about this boat we need to dig deeper.

Last edited by davidpm; 11-08-2009 at 09:19 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 11-08-2009
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,653
Thanks: 160
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
As an Arrow.......................I think you have convinced them to continue on with their search.....
I'm not sure about that. He really likes the boat so I'm not even sure I should really push him to pass.
This is his first boat. He wants a big boat, he is a big guy and had no interest in the Catalina 25 type boats I showed him. In fact he now wants to look at some 34's. Problem is he dosen't want to commit big bucks for a newer boat, he never sailed before so I don't blame him.
So worse case scenario. He buys the boat for $15,000 sails one season and sells for what $10,000. I'm pretty sure the boat would sell in a couple days at 10g. So he looses 5g. He used to race stock cars so I doubt a couple thou one way or the other really matters. If he buys a really nice boat for 40,000 he may still have to sell at 35 and it may take a few months and rack up 5g in yard bills. So a cheaper boat with a marginal core may be less of a risk than a better more expensive boat.

Do you agree.?

Last edited by davidpm; 11-08-2009 at 09:47 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 11-08-2009
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,653
Thanks: 160
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Like I mentioned before my new friend knows absolutely nothing about boats. He seems like a really nice guy and I'm trying to help him out. After we saw the boat but before I went back and found the wet deck problem I sent him the following email. I called him today and asked if I scared him away and he said it was a little more expensive than he thought but he was still on board. I'm not a yacht broker even though I got to play one yesterday so I trying to be as truthfull as possible and not unnecessarily scare him off.

How accurate do you think I have been?

Here is the email:
Morgan 32
This is a link to the Morgan 321: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Morgan-321---Recent-Survey-2054206/Westbrook/CT/United-States. The shoal draft will make it easy to get into any marina. It will not point as well as deeper draft boats but even so it has the same race handicap as the Catalina 30 which frankly is surprising as the C30 has a reputation of being reasonably fast.
I don’t know what kind of buyer you are. It may seem a little impulsive to buy effectively the first boat you saw but then on the other hand I’ve seen dozens of boats the last few months and it is one impressive boat. If it passes a closer inspection and survey it would be an amazing first boat. I am completely neutral on this subject and if you want to look at some more boats, maybe a little bigger even, that is good too. You will be hard pressed to find one in such good condition however. This Morgan is not hard-core blue water boat but it appears to be better made than most and people have done some ocean sailing with it. I’ve read of trips to Hawaii so it is a well respected solid design.
Value>>
If you search on www.yachworld.com for sister ships you will see the price from 44g on down. The one we looked at was the least expensive in the country. I don’t know the sellers situation and how flexible the price is but it seems to be priced well.
Purchasing Process>>
The standard yacht purchase contract has language that makes the purchase subject to survey and sea trial. The way it works is you sign a purchase agreement and write a check for 10%. Then you do a quick haul I’m guessing about $600. You get a survey about $600. Do a sea trial and either accept or reject the boat. You are on the hook for the 1,000 for survey and haul but if you reject the boat for any reason you get back the deposit. If the survey identifies any problems the seller can reduce the price to compensate or offer to fix. I would recommend reducing the price and doing the work yourself. You get a better job that way. All that’s left is to get the insurance binder, pay the registration to the state $150.00 and of course sales tax. The boat has a recent survey which Gene will give me. Gene will try to convince you to not do a survey, saving 1,000, and go by the sellers survey. For obvious reasons that is a lot more risky. The winter storage may already have been paid and that is worth $1,400, we should ask.

Issues
The CNG installation should be vented. I’ll check on that tomorrow.
The 2QM20h engine is a raw water cooled engine which if carefully maintained may be ok but it might be worth having someone check it since it is old. It may have a fresh water retrofit. I’ll check tomorrow.
Raw water cooled engines don’t put out as much hot water so that’s another thing I will look into.

The following prices are rough estimates using the big yard we were in as a guide. Some prices may be less but boats are in no way cheap and I am certain to miss some items from the list. You want to be able to afford what you buy so you will enjoy it. This is a little unfair in one sense because no one I know just starting out in boating gets to see all these numbers before they get started. Usually they are hooked before they figure out the real tab. So if these numbers ruin it for you I’m sorry, but you asked so here they are.

Acquisition Costs>>
Item >>

Cost>>



Boat

20,000



Taxes

1,200



Survey

600



Hauling

600



State License

150



Winter Storage (may be paid)

1,400



Insurance

700


Total









Yearly Costs>>
Item >>

Cost>>



Summer Slip

4,000



Winter Storage

1,400



Insurance

600



Tow Boat

150



State License

150



Insurance

700



Maintenance and upgrade budget

3,000


Total


[





Sample Project Costs>>
Item >>

Cost>>



Mainsail

1,800



Genoa

1,800



New dodger, Bimini, connector, side curtains all around in plastic and screening. (Yes this stuff is expensive)

7,000



Pull Mast

600



Dinghy

1,600



Dinghy Motor

1,000



Roller Furling

3,000



Mainsail cover

600



Cockpit Cushions

1,000



Shrink wrap

600




Last edited by davidpm; 11-08-2009 at 09:58 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 11-08-2009
Stillraining's Avatar
Handsome devil
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LaConner,Washington
Posts: 3,477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough
I'm the wrong guy to ask...as I am confidant in my own repair abilities so am not miffed by some things other folks turn their noses up or freak out at and i can see past dirt.

It is a good time to buy up however so no reason to settle for..IMO..but that as we all know is just the beginning of the relation ship....best to start out on the cheap if unsure.


However there is a lot to be said for turn key boat buying ( yes i know there is no such thing but you know what i mean) read my signiture line
__________________
"Go Simple...Go Large"

Relationships are everything to me..everything else in life are just tools to enhance them.


The purchase price of a boat is just the admittance fee to the dance...you still have to spend money on the girl...so court one with something going for her with pleasing and desirable character traits others desire as well... or you could find yourself in a disillusioned relationship contemplating an expensive divorce.

Last edited by Stillraining; 11-08-2009 at 10:00 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deck Washdown Systems Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 02-23-2004 07:00 PM
Techniques for Removing Teak Decks Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 11-24-2003 07:00 PM
Mounting Deck Hardware Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 06-25-2002 08:00 PM
How to Paint Your Own Deck Don Casey Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 02-04-2002 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:07 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.