Responsive boat for beginner

captainfun · #1 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

My wife and I are looking for a small boat to hone our skills on. We sailed on a Sunfish last season. I want a boat that is large enough for my wife and I and maybe a couple of grandkids or another couple. We would only be out for the afternoon or day. The boat will be kept in a slip. A small enclosure or cabin type would be nice so we can store all gear on the boat. I know we would use the boat a lot more if it is ready to go on a moment’s notice.

We will be on a small Illinois lake. We would take the boat out several evenings after work when the wind is typically light, and on Sat and Sun afternoons. I want a main and a jib with the appropriate lines etc to fool with. (something more than the simple Sunfish) A boat that is responsive is what I am looking for. We took a Compac 16 with a shoal keel out a couple of times and it seemed “mushy.” (I don’t know the proper nautical term) A fun to sail responsive boat with a place to keep the gear stored on board is what we are looking for. I realize all boats are a compromise. Maybe one doesn’t exist that meets my needs.

What boat would you suggest that we consider? I saw a Catalina 22 at the dock and it really looked nice. Would this be too much boat for a beginner? Is it too large to provide proper feedback to a new sailor?

Thanks in advance.

CharlieCobra · #2 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

Nope. I started on a Venture 21 so the Cat 22 would be a great boat.

Faster · #3 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

Cat 22 would be fine, but has Charlie ever got the boat for you!! (see his signature above).... besides which, he's probably gettin' pretty desparate.... OhJoy needs even more joy!

CharlieCobra · #4 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

Thanks Faster, that price has been lowered to $ 1,500 firm BTW. I just can't edit that ad.

Mike Turner · #5 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

Like you, I started (years ago) on a Sunfish on inland lakes (Michigan). I moved up through the years to a Daysailor II (16', cuddy cabin), Catalina 25, Catalina 30, Rob Roy 23 (our current boat, yawl rigged) and our latest acquistion, a 32' Hermann Lazyjack schooner.

I crew on a friend's Catalina 22 in weekend races on Mobile Bay. It's a responsive boat with a good turn of speed, good size for weekending, and there are a zillion of them out there. As you become more proficient in sailing you may find you want to race some (put two sailboats together on the same body of water, and sooner or later they'll end up seeing who can outrun the other), and there are lots of 'em out there.

Technically the C22 is a trailerable boat, and I know folks who sail them off the trailer, but if that's what you plan you'll have to add the time before/after sailing to put the mast up/down, bend the sails, etc. If you plan to keep the boat in the water that's not much of a consideration.

Comparable boats to the C22 are the O'Day 22, Venture 21, and Macgregor 21 and 25. There are plenty of others.

A couple of smaller, more trailerable boats that might meet your criteria are the O'Day Daysailor II and O'Day Mariner (19'). Both are centerboard boats.

Mike Turner
Rob Roy 23 yawl "Fiddlestix"
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary 'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama

bobmcgov · #6 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

Cat22 is a fine boat: stable-feeling, moderately roomy below for its size, cheap to own. Cockpit isn't very big for social sailing however, and it's only medium zippy. Put the Compacs at the Mushy end and a boat like the Santana 2023 at the Responsive end. In between, it's all about tradeoffs. The small Odays are nice daysailors, quite dinghy-like, as is the Rhodes 19. A weird, expensive, but highly versatile boat with tons of cockpit space is the Vanguard Nomad. Not much stowage, and no room for a potty, but lots of lines to pull (including a retracting sprit!). Lightning is a fantastic daysailor, as is the Thistle; neither is especially comfortable for longer trips.

The Windrose, Aquarius, & Starwind boats are slowish but well-loved as family vessels. Venture 21 and San Juan 21 are very similar to each other; either will feel quick in a breeze and will move well even in the lightest airs. Faster than it looks, here's a cute Morgan 22 near Grand Rapids. It's a really intriguing critter, that Morgan.

ETA: If you plan to wet slip the boat, you will need a self-bailing cockpit. Many small daysailers lack that feature and may sink at the dock in a heavy rain.

CalebD · #7 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainfun

We will be on a small Illinois lake. We would take the boat out several evenings after work when the wind is typically light, and on Sat and Sun afternoons. I want a main and a jib with the appropriate lines etc to fool with. (something more than the simple Sunfish) A boat that is responsive is what I am looking for. We took a Compac 16 with a shoal keel out a couple of times and it seemed “mushy.” (I don’t know the proper nautical term) A fun to sail responsive boat with a place to keep the gear stored on board is what we are looking for. I realize all boats are a compromise. Maybe one doesn’t exist that meets my needs.

Thanks in advance.

If a Compac 16 felt 'mushy' to you then it is likely you will find the C 22 and other keel boats in the same range also feel a bit slow or 'mushy'. The only boat in this size that I have sailed on that handles more like a dinghy is the J 24, the Lightning, 420's, Sonar, Flying Scott to name a few. You should try as many boats as you can to get an idea of how they handle. A centerboard boat would be good on a lake, IMHO.

captainfun · #8 (**permalink**) 12-18-2009

Thanks for all of the great info. I have lots of ideas to consider.

Mike T, I looked at the Lazyjack, what a fabulous boat! Someday I may be in that market. Gotta work a few more years though. Great point about setting up the mast etc. That is why we are getting a slip. My time is precious so I don't want to be spending it setting up, when I could be sailing.

Bobmcgov, Thanks for the point about self bailing cockpits, and the reference points comparing the Compac to the Santana, precisely the info I am looking for.

Andyman · #9 (**permalink**) 12-19-2009

My first ever boat and still is...an Aquarius 23. I ran all the lines aft and it is very easy to sail singlehanded. Nice interior with lots of room. Huge cockpit. My friends who have a Catalina 25 are jealous of the v-berth and the cockpit. The A23 can be found for some great prices...you just have to look. Two people can easily raise and lower the mast.

Andy

BigZ · #10 (**permalink**) 12-19-2009

Someone mentioned the Flying Scott, which I agree is a very good choice. Similar boat is the Buccaneer. Both have very large cockpits and some storage area for PFDs, etc. The centerboard allows use in shallow waters and they would both be quicker and more, a lot more, fun than a Cat 22 or similar boat that has the small cabin. Drawback is there is no room for a toilet, but not sure if that is mandatory from what you stated.
As far as keeping one of these in a slip, I had a Buccaneer on an inland lake for over 10 yrs. I had it covered with a boom tent for some years, but some years just left it open. No big deal.