laser 28 or catalina 25 for gorgian bay ontario

[Farzad]

I am going to buy my first boat . I will be sailing in Georgian bay ontario and thinking to buy laser 28.or catalina 25.I realy appreciate if anybody can give me any advise

Thanks

[Faster]

These are two very different boats... The Laser is a cleverly executed, high performance RACER/cruiser whereas the Catalina is more of a cruiser/gunkholing type of boat.

The Laser will provide exhilarating sailing and great responsiveness, the Catalina a more sedate comfy ride. I'd suggest the Laser is not the better 'first' boat.. but would be more appreciated by someone with some experience looking for the next level of performance.

[Farzad]

do you mean that laser is hard to handle for a beginner?

[Faster]

Originally Posted by Farzad

do you mean that laser is hard to handle for a beginner?

The loads are relatively light, it's a very responsive boat and will reward a skilled sailor with some exciting sailing... but yes, I think that the Laser would be a handful for someone just starting out compared to the Catalina.

The Laser's a great boat, don't get me wrong, but not as suited for shorthanded cruising as some others.

[CoastalEddie]

Originally Posted by Farzad

I am going to buy my first boat . I will be sailing in Gorgian bay ontario and thinking to buy laser 28.or catalina 25.I realy appreciate if anybody can give me any advise

Thanks

As Faster indicated, these are very different boats. Which boat to get depends quite a bit on your sailing experience, and the type of sailing you want to do. Either boat can be daysailed or raced, it depends more on your emphasis. If you mainly want to do some daysailing with a few friends, maybe an overnight once in a while with your significant-other, etc., get the Catalina. If you really want to race competitively, get the Laser.

Ed

[kwaltersmi]

I'm not familiar with the Laser 28 (aside from what's been mentioned above), but I am familiar with the C25 and think it would make a great first boat if your intended purpose is to daysail, learn and cruise. If you're planning to explore Georgian Bay and the North Channel, I'd go with the C25.

[Jeff_H]

I owned a Laser 28 for nearly 14 years. It was a great boat all around. It sailed very well across a wide range of conditions. It was a very good coastal cruiser, a great single-hander and a very good boat to race under PHRF. I taught a lot of people to sail on that boat during the time that I owned and sold it to someone who was pretty new to the sport.

The real question is hoe good a sailor do you wish to come. The Catalina is an inferior sailing boat in all ways and in all wind conditions, but it is a simplier rigged boat and in some ways more forgiving. If you want to learn to be a skilled sailor the Laser has all of the tools to teach you to sail really well. You might learn to sail acceptably on the Catalina, but it will be much harder to really learn and develop high level sail trim and boat handling skills.

The Laser has a bit of a reputation as being tricky to sail. That reputation is not fully deserved. These boats are raced with an enormous sail plan, and an SA/D around 26. With a full sail plan of a 155 genoa and main sail, the boat could be a bit of a handful in building breezes. They also typically carry an oversized spinnaker that can be a handful in strong breezes without a skilled crew.

But as a boat for a beginner,I would not recommend using the larger racing sails. Most of these boats have a 108% "lapper" and a 90% working jib. The Lapper was an extremely versitlle sail. It was good down to almost no wind (2-3 knots) and was good up to nearly 20 knots with a reef in the mainsail in the high teens. One of the really nice things about these boats is that they sail really well under mainsail alone and so on your first sails, if in doubt, simply sail under the mainsail and don't worry about the jib until you are ready.

As a beginner I would start out sailing the boat with the mainsail and Lapper. In that mode the boat should be easy to sail and will be a great boat to develop skills. Starting out, I would not get too concerned about using all the fine tuning devices that were standard on the boat. Just learn the basics, mainsheet, traveler and jib. But as you become comfortable with these basic adjustments you can begin to e\xperiment the other more sophisticated adjustments that came as standard equipment on the boat such as the backstay adjuster, barber haulers and the like. One of the nice things about the Laser is that it sophisticated enough that you will never out grow it's sailing ability.

In terms of build quality, the Laser 28 was exceptionally well constructed and rugged boat. The Lasers were constucted in a manner that made maintenance easy so these boat have had a great service life. That is not the case with the Catalina's whose build quality is mediocre at best.

If you wish to discuss this further, please feel free to PM or Email me.

Jeff

[Jaywalker]

Re the Laser 28, I found the following interesting:

"To most of us, the Laser 28 is a new boat, a relatively untried and unproven design, that will have to be completely unique in both concept and performance to live up to its namesake. However, to the people who designed and now build her, she represents six years of hard preparatory work - at the previously unheard of development cost of of $2.4 million. It’s unlikely that any other boat of her size has ever gone through such a lengthy and expensive development before introduction. In light of such a monumental investment, simple arithmetic would suggest the that the Laser 28 will never return a profit.

For comparison, let’s look at the J/30 … The J/30 was only one year in the works, at a cost of $200,000. After the first 80 boats were sold, this investment was recovered. Five years later, the total number of deliveries was over 500. To recoup the development costs of the Laser 28, 1250 boats have to be sold.
- The Complete Book of Sailboat Buying, Vol II, p. 152"

While I wouldn't expect lengthy development to resolve all problems, the time and money spent of this one would seem to validate opinion of its quality. After six years, the developers should have had time to scale the materials properly, route the electric lines where they could be serviced, etc. It's an intriguing boat. As a newbie, I'm all in favor of a design that doesn't require me, the prospective owner, to beta-test the design. I'm considering one.

[t22cayuga]

I bought a Laser 28 last year as my second boat after 6 years learning sailing and racing in a Tanzer 22. I've never sailed a Catalina 25 but I suspect it's a lot like the Tanzer, and worlds away from the Laser. The Tanzer was a great boat to learn on, reasonably fast for its size and vintage and really "forgiving". A Laser 28 offers something that you can get in very few other boats. It's light, fast, and responsive, and has more interior than you'll find in any performance boat under 30'. We got pretty good sailing the Tanzer and a lot of that translated to the Laser. Last year we did ok to well in light to medium air, and got whipped good in heavy air, upwind and down (under spinnaker). The bagged out old main that I had wasn't helping (impossible to depower) but mostly what we learned is that the boat rewards good sailing and quickly punishes you for mistakes. I ordered a new main and am really looking forward to spring.

If you have no intention of racing, a Laser 28 might not be the boat for you. Just going out for a daysail with the family in 12+ is great fun, but you really have to pay attention, actively sailing the boat, it's never set it and forget it if it's at all windy. There are lots of boats from the 70's that are fun to sail, good choices as first boats, and can be had a lot cheaper. Jeff_H is right on though, if your goat is to become a really good sailor it's a great boat, that is really versatile and one that you won't soon outgrow.

[Farzad]

Thank you All specially Jeff for helping me out. I am now all for L28 and going to see one this weekend.
Regards,
Farzad