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  #11  
Old 01-24-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

Glen, a couple of add''l comments:
1. Wood? Oh, gosh NO! For multiple reasons, your instincts are IMO on target - stick to glass and you''ll find it easy, affordable and quick to fix/modify and later capitalize on your work by finding it easy/quick to sell.
2. You sound like someone who''s come to the conclusion he must suffer to the max in order to benefit from the experience the max. If you''re after ending up with a sailboat - and in the interim, a place to live while at school - and not into Survival Living while impersonating a starving artist, why not ratchet down the size of the boat (I''ve seen you reference 32'', 35'' and 35-40'' boats) and allow yourself less work and more fun, sooner? Given the variables, you seem the ideal candidate for a 27-32'' boat that isn''t a basket case and still meets your budget restraints.
3. Your reservations about finding a boat that must be moved any significant distance of course make sense. You need to find someone''s orphan very close to where you''ll be aboard her. So...in a way, that makes everything easier. The way Jeff describes how he found some of his fixer-uppers, basically by sniffing around, talking to everyone, and rubber-necking whenever possible in nearby areas is the key. Word of mouth needs to be put in motion on your behalf. Docks at old marinas and especially yards and open fields should be your hunting grounds. What great sport!

Good luck. Getting all this helpful info requires of you that we all get a final report when you''ve found your new home...or a story on the highlights of what got in the way.

Jack
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

But if you look long enough you''s be amazed at what you can find out there. For example my Farr 38 which is what I believe VIEXILE was referring to in his post, was sitting in a field in Maine, taken apart for quite a while, and in need of a serious clean up and at a price cheaper than a Bristol 35 of similar vintage in comparable condition. It was not a bargain but it was certainly less expensive than the same boat would have been all fixed up and in the water. Over the last year I have been able to whittle away at one project at a time converting her back from being almost exclusively race oriented to being a cruising boat and a single-hander.

One minor point, you don''t have to pay use tax in Maine if you can get the boat out of Maine within a reasonable period (I think it was 60 days after purchase but you should check) but you will end up paying taxes in whatever state you ultimately keep the boat. Most states have a form of reciprocity that basically credits whatever taxes you paid in one state toward your "use tax" or "sales tax" in the state where you will be keeping the boat so keep your reciepts.

Jeff
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  #13  
Old 01-24-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

To WHOOSH,
First of all, I love the name!

I wouldn''t say that I''m a masochist when it comes to depriving myself (I''m assuming that you were referring to my comments about not requiring amenities). I like being comfortable as much as the next person! I definitely prefer not to suffer!!! I''m not so frugal that I would use a five gallon bucket as a long-time temporary toilet! I was simply trying to make the point that I don''t expect to have it all or need it all, right from the start.

As for the size of the boat... admitedly, I don''t know what size would meet my needs. I can say this with some certainty, 35-40 feet is the max that I would need. So I''ve been using that as my starting point.

Would I consider something smaller? Absolutely! How small could I go? I don''t know. I''ve sailed a Beneteau 23 (it may have been a 21) single-handed quite comfortably but I wouldn''t want to live on it year round in New England. I sailed an Ericson 25, years ago and if memory serves, the accomodations weren''t to bad. Would they be suitable after I have winterized her and added some sort of means to heat her? I don''t know. I''d have to take a fresh look to see if that size would be appropriate.

I''m kind of curious about Bayme''s "hodj" which is 32. I don''t think I''ve ever been on a boat of that size so I''m curious about what sort of accomodations it would have and how I could modify the interior to meet my needs. However, Bayme didn''t have much information on it and the only other reference that I could find about the boat (on the net) was by another sailor, also looking for information on his hodj.

I agree on the word of mouth theory. This is my starting point. I''ve already had three people contact me (in two days) about their boats. It''s not much but is a start! I''ve also been refer to one site that has three boats being offered to a good home for free. I''m not interested in any of them but again, it''s an encouraging start to the process.

As for your last request... ARE YOU KIDDING?!?!?! Of course there will be a grand annoucement when I find my new project! You''ll receive the announcement and then right away you''ll all start receiving request for information pertaining to how I should go about fixing her!!! ; - )

Thanks again for the comments,
Glen
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Old 01-24-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

To Jeff_H,
That''s interesting about the issue of taxes, which is something that I haven''t begun to consider. Do you know how they generally assess the taxes? Would it be strictly on the amount that you paid for the boat or would there be some sort of formula based on price and size, etc.?

Well, it''s to early in the game to worry about that but it is a good thing to keep in the back of my mind.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

Glen: You sound like me some 30 years ago. I took three years off from my studies after I graduated with my bachelor''s degree but before my masters degree. I bought a 25 foot wooden folkboat for $400 and once I got the ole girl afloat I moved aboard. I slept at on the duckboards that served as a cabin sole, and cooked on a one burner alcohol stove. I had a salad bowl for a basin and jerry can for my water and a bucket for my head, and it was some of the happiest days of my life.

As a 52 year old with a bunch of shelletal damage from my motorcycle racing days, I can''t imagine myself doing that today, yet as a yound man it felt like paradise.

I think that it was Jack who hit the nail on the head here. If you are not into ''all of the comforts of home'' type living, you cna probably get by with a much smaller boat. Perhaps as small as a 30 footer would do. I caution against stripped out hulks because even getting them rigged with minimal sailing, engine and living equipment can be so expensive that you can often buy a better boat for far less than the combined cost. My point here being "Keep your eye on the combined cost of the project when completed to a state that you can live with and not just the up front costs". This is a mistake that I have watched played out so many times in my life, not only in boats but in cars and houses as well.

The taxes issue is pretty much based on sales price except that in some states, in the absense of a notarized bill of sale with the price spelled out, they will go by a Bluebook value which on a fix-er-upper is usually way more than the boat is worth.

Good luck
Jeff
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Old 01-25-2003
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Regarding the Hodj I''ve been looking for a while, but cannot find more information on the boat. She has very fast lines, and looks alot like an ex-racer.

The part of the headliner that needs to be replaced, is because I thought some water was leaking in from the deck, so I pulled a section to see if I could get closer. It was not leaking from any hardware installation, nor the mast step area, but I need to get closer. Replacing a wooden headliner is very easy.

Regarding the gelcoat peeler, I had two reasons for getting it.

1) I think a bottom job for any boat you are restoring, especially if you will be living on the boat all year long, is an absolute requirement, and

2) If you are doing a bottom job, a peeler is the way to go. It is alot easier, and substantially faster than either sanding or stripping. Also, any dust is caught by the vacuam attachment, so you are not damaging the environment.

I don''t have interior pics at this time, and frankmly won''t until it gets warmer in NY
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Old 01-25-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

I think Jeff is probably on the mark here regarding the financial aspects, and his advice certainly concurs with that of other experts like Don Casey (see an article of his about this exact topic somewher in the SailNet archives). It is important to do your research and really know what you''re getting into when acquiring a project boat. But I wanted to ennumerate some possible rationales for going the project boat route despite the finances:

1. It''s the project that interests you even more than the prospect of eventually sailing the boat. We all have our hobbies. (Restoring boats is NOT one of mine. Really! ;-)

2. You''re trying to help protect the environment by keeping all that plastic and lead out of the landfill by making it useful again. (What DOES happen to old plastic boats that nobody wants anymore?)

3. The boat is a family "heirloom" (if I can use that term) and has some kind of special sentimental value. (But if that''s the case, how come the family didn''t maintain it properly in the first place!)

4. You have some special requirements that just can''t be met by any existing boat on the market, and you want to short-cut the custom build approach by starting with a stripped-out hull of a design that''s close enough. (Why buy an already fully fitted-out boat if you''re just going to rip out the interior and replace all the systems anyway?)

5. You KNOW your project boat, when all is said and done, is going to end up costing you more than a Hinckley maintained at the Hinckley yard, and you''re ready to commit to that, but you just can''t come up with the scratch up-front and you don''t want to pay the banks all that interest on top (or, maybe they won''t let you). So the project boat allows you to spread your costs over time. A long, long time.

There are probably other rationales, too, I just can''t think of them right now.

(FWIW, my boat restorations so far have involved replacing the mast-step in a Laser, and re-coring the deck -- virtually the entire deck -- of a San Juan 21; you can see these at http://personal.monad.net/~catamount/)

Tim
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

Glen,

Ok, as I am completing my latest project, I am an expert <g> on boat restoration!!! I don''t think my experience with my project necessarily qualifies me for any advice. However, you do seem to gravitate towards individuals similarly bound to such projects. It is here that the big lessons occur.

Watch for people who are really gaining on their projects and adopt their techniques, especially the liveaboards. Liveaboards not only have to live amongst the debris and materials stockpiling, but, once a system or structure is renovated or installed, it begins to decay immediately from the liveaboard usage. And sailboats despite their seeming economy and simplicity compared to powerboats are deceptively complex and expensive to maintain and upgrade concurrent with living aboard. I have seen very few people capable of getting ahead of the eightball. Many stare longingly at the erected mast and rigging structures, acheing to slip the dock lines for an afternoon or weekend sail, knowing full well they are not seaworthy because of some intermediate project is incomplete.

For that reason,bite my tongue, but don''t look askance at a stinkpot. Many dated cruisers exist with fully functional onboard systems, and low time propulsion units. An interior decor changeout, LP paint, and some stainless and the value appreciates and you have a decent chance of maintaining seaworthiness in the process. With a sailing vessel, you must get the auxillary operational, as well as the sail elements, concurrently, to maintain seaworthiness.

Surprisingly, I have seen more people succeed with this ploy than rehabbing sailing vessels. With the time demands of school you will need to limit your manhour demands in some way.

My project came courtesy of E-Bay and Boat US''s insurance clearance auctions, now run by USAuction.com. They seem to concentrate in the Southeast, and, when vessels come up out of that area, they seem to go for reasonable sums. Sail and power are auctioned.

My .0002% of a boating unit of advice!!!

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Old 01-27-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

You might try checking out some of the e-mail lists at sailnet.com. I am a member on the Cal list since I own a Cal 31. There are 331 members on this list alone and tons of discussion on renovations of boats between 20-40 years old. Add on the other 100 or so lists and do a search. Good winter project digging through all that stuff. My daughter and her husband have been livaboards on a 38 ft. bluewater sailboat for more than ten years, always with at least two dogs and a cat. Personaly, I could be very comfortable on my Cal 31with one dog.
RC
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Old 01-28-2003
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Project Boats -- Where Do You Find Them?

http://yachtworld.com/listing/yw_listing_detail_handler.jsp?boat_id=1044391&unit s=Feet&currency=USD


http://yachtworld.com/listing/yw_listing_detail_handler.jsp?boat_id=1019210&unit s=Feet&currency=USD


http://yachtworld.com/listing/yw_listing_detail_handler.jsp?boat_id=990109&units =Feet&currency=USD


http://yachtworld.com/listing/yw_listing_detail.jsp?checked_boats=1041290&curren cy=USD&units=Feet
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