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  #11  
Old 01-16-2010
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You're following the same path that we took 23 years ago. When we bought our first cruiser, a Sabre 28, we wanted to keep it in Ocean City, NJ or Cape May since we in Marlton, NJ. After slip rental sticker shock on the Shore, we looked to the Northern Chesapeake. We eventually bought our boat in Worton Creek, but kept it in Riverside NJ for the first winter. We kept the boat on Fairlee Creek the first year and then moved to Virginia and kept the boat in Reedville. We've never looked back.

Once you get to the Bay, you'll never leave. It's worth the drive; the flavor and tone of the Bay is far different than the Delaware. The Northern Bay has a much more cosmopolitan feel than the middle or lower Bay and there are a million gunk holes to explore. The Northern Bay is fairly narrow and nearly as well protected as the Delaware, but with many more holes in which to ditch if the wind picks up. Lots of great Restaurants too. And fall is magical; September to mid-November is heaven.

I'm sure that others can provide advice for good marinas; my knowledge is a bit dated.

Welcome in advance.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
I have resigned from my Golf Club to free up time and money to dedicate to the forthcoming boat.....



(However, I do realize that a boat is a lousy investment, and that it's virtually certain that I will never get all of my money out of it.)
The boat is a better investment than your golf club membership ever was or ever will be. Do the math:
5 years of golf club membership @ $5k/yr= $25k
5 years of required overpriced drinks, overpriced food and tacky clothes = $25k
5 years of new woods, drivers, balls, bag, shoes = $5k
Total spent $55k
Total numbers of benificiaries= you.
Total retained value= $500 worth of used clubs and smelly shoes.

Boat purchase= $30 k
5 years of all-in maintenance, moorage, and incidentals @ $5k/yr (your figure, and I feel you would be hard pressed to spend that much) = $25k
Total invested= $55k
Total number of beneficiaries= your entire family, and your friends.
Total retained value= $25k worth of very well-maintained boat, if you adhere to your $5k/yr maintenance schedule.

The only people who argue that a boat is a lousy investment are those who would rather be golfing.

BTW, most of the executives at AIG, GM and Chrysler are golfers. Larry Ellison and Richard Branson are sailors. Who asked for a taxpayer-funded mulligan? I'm just sayin'.

Glad to see you come over to the dark side.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
The boat is a better investment than your golf club membership ever was or ever will be. Do the math:
5 years of golf club membership @ $5k/yr= $25k
5 years of required overpriced drinks, overpriced food and tacky clothes = $25k
5 years of new woods, drivers, balls, bag, shoes = $5k
Total spent $55k
Total numbers of benificiaries= you.
Total retained value= $500 worth of used clubs and smelly shoes.

Boat purchase= $30 k
5 years of all-in maintenance, moorage, and incidentals @ $5k/yr (your figure, and I feel you would be hard pressed to spend that much) = $25k
Total invested= $55k
Total number of beneficiaries= your entire family, and your friends.
Total retained value= $25k worth of very well-maintained boat, if you adhere to your $5k/yr maintenance schedule.

The only people who argue that a boat is a lousy investment are those who would rather be golfing.

BTW, most of the executives at AIG, GM and Chrysler are golfers. Larry Ellison and Richard Branson are sailors. Who asked for a taxpayer-funded mulligan? I'm just sayin'.

Glad to see you come over to the dark side.
lol! But your numbers are a little off. My country club was a relative value at $3600/year, but dues have been going up much faster than inflation because the club has been in the red. No required food or drink (yet). I bought my Callaway irons off ebay for $199, TaylorMade woods for $125 each off ebay too. Yes, I'm cheap - except when it comes to boats.

I'm bargaining hard to stay under $50k for the boat - we'll see how successful I am. (We want one in really nice condition.) Slip fees and maintenance will be a little higher than we had planned with the larger boat. In-season slip near my house on Delaware River would have been only $1400/year, but on the Chesapeake it looks like $3200-3600, plus more for winter storage. (Just starting to shop around, and so far I've only found "resort" marinas with swimming pools. Maybe I can find one for less than this.) But I think we'll end up little over $5000/year for slip/storage/maintenance if we moor on the Chesapeake.

But I am enjoying spending Saturdays with my family instead of my golf buddies. Driving around looking at boats with the boss has been a lot of fun, just for the time together. Our time together on the water has always been great on our Phantom sailing dinghy (until we need to use the head lol), so it will be nice to actually have a head so we can go out for more than a few hours at a time!

Last edited by TakeFive; 01-16-2010 at 11:20 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2010
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I'm glad you have a sense of humour, RD. And I am glad you are enjoying the boat search.
The Cheaspeake is great, but don't overlook the advantages of having a slip close to home. I sail out of lake Erie, and my slip is less than 15 minutes from my home. Thanks to the close proximity, I am on my boat more often during the season. Yeah, Georgian Bay and the North Channel is one of the great crusining grounds of North America, yadda yadda, but if it takes me four hours to get there, then a) I am sailing less often, and b) likely paying more for the popularity of the location, and c) driving my costs up by adding travel costs to my sailing costs (yeah, I am cheap too.)

First things first: Find the right boat for you, then decide where to keep it. and then enjoy the hell out of it.
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
...First things first: Find the right boat for you, then decide where to keep it. and then enjoy the hell out of it.
That is the order that I am doing things, by necessity, although I'll need to know for sure which state by the time I go to closing. The decision where to keep it is severely complicated by tax implications, and PA's well-known refusal to grant reciprocity to neighboring states. It seems my original decision to try out PA waters for a year, and move to MD later if I want, may likely result in paying 6% to PA, then 5% to MD. See this thread for someone else's experience:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/61292-where-document-title-register-2.html#post560198


[Edit: Oops, I need to do some more research. Pennsylvania and Maryland do have a reciprocal agreement for income taxes. I need to get the exact wording of the agreement to see if it extends to excise and sales/use taxes. But my prior statement that PA does not have reciprocity with neighboring states is wrong. They do not get along with DE (or NY), as I am reminded every year when I do my income taxes for my Delaware-generated income, but PA and MD get a long a little better than I thought.]

Last edited by TakeFive; 01-17-2010 at 08:57 AM.
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2010
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Since this thread had drifted to the tax question, I have created a new thread to continue the discussion on Maryland excise taxes. (Click here)
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  #17  
Old 01-29-2010
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Here's a quick update on our boat search:

Because of our interest in comfortable cruising and my 6'5" son's desire for as much headroom as possible, we continued to increase the size and price range of boats that we were looking at. I placed unsuccessful offers on a couple of Catalina 320s. My prices were right in the middle of the range of comparables from soldboats.com, but because these boats are very new on the market and in very nice condition, the owners are still optimistic about getting prices that are 20% higher than soldboats says they should get. That's their right, and I've moved on.

Over the past week, practicality has taken over, and I started thinking of the 80/20 rule. If we find a smaller, less expensive boat for daysailing near home on the Delaware we would have 80% of the fun for 20% of the price and much lower slip, storage, and maintenance costs. Realistically we could not spend more than 1-2 weeks a year doing cruising while I am still working, and I had to wonder whether it is worth the extra cost of owning a big boat when we only need that amount of space for those 1-2 weeks. Such a boat is bigger than we would need for daysailing on protected waters.

I think I could have the "best of both worlds" with the smaller, less expensive boat near home for sailing after work and on weekends, and charter a 32-40 footer down on the Bay for the 1-2 weeks of cruising each year. (Ulladh mentioned in a prior message that he does this to supplement his own sailing on the Delaware.) I could also avoid the choice of where to keep it - I'd have my own boat near home, and could get a charter boat almost anywhere.

The economics are pretty simple: Under $1000 to slip a 25' boat on the Delaware vs. about $3600 for a 32' boat at an upscale marina like Haven Harbour. The difference of $2600, plus difference of maintenance cost, could pay for 2 weeks of chartering, and if I have a busy year that prevents us from cruising I'm not ticked off that I'm spending so much on a boat that we can't fully use.

Also, while chartering (and daysailing the smaller boat), I would be learning a lot more about my preferences in boat features (as well as upgrading my sailing skills), so if we were to decide to move up later it would be a much more knowledgeable decision.

My wife really wants the Catalina perch seats and walk-through transom, so I have my eye on a Catalina 250 that's in really nice shape. We could keep that near home (or move it to Lake Wallenpaupack someday if we want), and charter on the Bay, Keys, USVI, etc. to fill in the rest.

Comments? Do any of you have nightmare stories about bareboat charters?

Last edited by TakeFive; 01-30-2010 at 07:34 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2010
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Well, today I think we reached agreement on purchase of a 1998 Catalina 250. This was the completion of the process we started in the above message. It was significant that I was able to stick to one boat model for 4 weeks without lusting after something else. This "feels" like the right boat for us at this stage - although we're very serious about also chartering a much larger boat for one week this summer.

We will keep her in the Delaware River for this year, but already thinking of the Bohemia for next year. That location seems the best compromise between distance and quality of environment.

I am looking for a surveyor for this boat, and have talked to a couple guys I found on the SAMS website. Any other recommendations for specific people? (The boat will need to be surveyed in Riverside, NJ before I take posession.)

Last edited by TakeFive; 02-23-2010 at 06:38 AM.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2010
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Good luck RD... Keep us posted.
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2010
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Congratulations on your purchase. I also (more or less) gave up golf a few years ago for sailing. I didn't belong to a club, but I found that I no longer had enough time to play. Now I can spend some time with the family on the water. (I've even managed to get my six year old into racing)

I am also in the Philly area (Delaware County). We keep our boat down on the North East River in the North East River Yacht Club. (neryc.com) If/when you decide to move down to the Chesapeake, take a look at NERYC. It's only a 50 minute drive from door to door. In the summer, I can leave work at 4:00 PM and still get a few hours of sailing in before dark. The club has nice new floating docks, and the facilities are pretty decent.

Unfortunately, I don't have a local surveyor to recommend. I purchased my boat in Annapolis and used a guy down there.
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