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  #1  
Old 01-27-2003
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camper nicholson 33

I am looking for info. on the nicholson 33 designed by Ron Holland. How does it sail, is it safe, well made, seaworthy. I plan to race and possibly some offshore work. Coastal cruising for sure.
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2003
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camper nicholson 33

My comments on the Holland designed Camper Nicholson 33 would be very similar to my comments on the Nicholson 303 and Nicholson Half tonner. All were cruising versions of the Ron Holland 1970''s era IOR boats made infamous by the 1979 Fastnet disaster. These are literally the poster children for what was wrong with the late 1970''s era IOR rule. Pinched ends, high vertical center of gravity, large jib small mainsail rig proportions (not as bad on the 33), rudders that would stall out out when heeled and stability that was heavily dependent on crew weight on the rail. As race boats niether of these offered either good light air performance, nor good heavy air performance, nor good reaching performance. With enough weight on the rail, they did offer good upwind performance in moderate winds.

These were pretty well constructed boats boats for IOR racer/cruisers, but they are the textbook example in Marchaj''s "Seaworthiness, the Forgotten Factor" for the type of boat that should not be taken offshore. While these were reasonably competitive under the IOR rule, on any objective scale they are not especially fast and can be a real handful but not especially fast downwind.

Respectfully
Jeff
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Old 03-13-2003
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camper nicholson 33

Dear River,

Searching the internet I found you question about the Nic 33 and also the reply by Jeff.

I own a Nic 33 build 1976 already for 5 years and sail around with my wife and two boys, now 6 and 9 years old.

We live in Holland (Europe) and sail the yacht to the UK, Denmark, Belgian and France on our tricky Northsea with a very good feeling about her safety at sea.

Better constructed than any serial yacht you now can buy.
With a sailplan with High aspect jib and reefed main sail easily to handle in heavy weather.

In our small local regatta''s not a real winner in light air, but fast and pointing extreme high in heavier winds.

She brings us in starting fields ORC up 60 boats always around place 10 or 12.
And then offcourse we sail with heater, fridge, beer, wine and all the cruising gear.

Allthough Jeff is right about all the text that are written about this models, we never feld unsafe.

In our area another 4 Nicc 33 are situated an these owners tell us the same stories.

E-mail me back for questions or other things.

Best regards,


Robbert-Jan Ras



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Old 03-13-2003
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camper nicholson 33

Dear River,

Searching the internet I found you question about the Nic 33 and also the reply by Jeff.

I own a Nic 33 build 1976 already for 5 years and sail around with my wife and two boys, now 6 and 9 years old.

We live in Holland (Europe) and sail the yacht to the UK, Denmark, Belgian and France on our tricky Northsea with a very good feeling about her safety at sea.

Better constructed than any serial yacht you now can buy.
With a sailplan with High aspect jib and reefed main sail easily to handle in heavy weather.

In our small local regatta''s not a real winner in light air, but fast and pointing extreme high in heavier winds.

She brings us in starting fields ORC up 60 boats always around place 10 or 12.
And then offcourse we sail with heater, fridge, beer, wine and all the cruising gear.

Allthough Jeff is right about all the text that are written about this models, we never feld unsafe.

In our area another 4 Nicc 33 are situated an these owners tell us the same stories.

E-mail me back for questions or other things.

Best regards,


Robbert-Jan Ras



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Old 05-14-2003
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camper nicholson 33

Hi River,

I read your message and wanted to give my own opinion. For over 10 years I sailed my father''s Nicholson 345: A fully fitted version of a late 70''s Ron Holland 3/4 ton design.
While I sympathise with some of the veiws of Jeff_H, I have to say that rjras probably has a more balanced view of these fine yachts. The Nicholson 33 is the earliest Holland design used as a production platform by Camper & Nicholson; the half-tonner / 303 hull being a derivation thereof. I have sailed aboard 2 half tonners, and these in addition to the 345 have all proved themselves to have good overall performance, though are very much at their best to windward, being very close winded, and with their fine entries easily driven.

Coming to their rigs, the 33 is a masthead design, having as Jeff said relatively large headsails, however most of the half-tonners, with the exception of only one that I know of have a seven-eighths fractional rig, and in terms of performance, are the best of the bunch. If the rig is properly set up, and the sails well trimmed, the boat should respond qickly and easily to teh helm, wich should remain light and well balanced, except when heavily over-pressed. All of the Ron Holland IOR derived Nicholsons have large rudders relative to their lateral plane area, which gives huge amounts of control and directional stability. I have certainly never experienced any loss of control through stalling of the rudder in these yachts !... but lets face it, if any sailing yacht is far enough over-pressed, then the rudder will stall, so in my opinion it isn''t a problem that affects any of the Ron Holland Nicholsons any more than any other yacht, and in fact it''s far less of a problem than with a number of other yachts I could mention.

Of all of the Holland IOR Nicholsons, my favourite is a tie, between the half-tonner, and the 345, and I certainly wouldn''t be put off by poeple recounting horror sotries of the way IOR boats behaved and stood up to the weatherof the 1979 Fastnet race. In fact, that years race was used as a proving ground for the then brand new Nicholson 345. Not only did she take part, She finished the race unscathed and 4th in her class. Her name, "Tronador" appears in the historical results list in in the book "Fastnet: The Story of a Great Ocean Race" in Class IV.

My next yacht will be a Nicholson 303 or half-tonner.... cant decide which !!


Dave
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Old 07-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
My comments on the Holland designed Camper Nicholson 33 would be very similar to my comments on the Nicholson 303 and Nicholson Half tonner. All were cruising versions of the Ron Holland 1970''s era IOR boats made infamous by the 1979 Fastnet disaster. These are literally the poster children for what was wrong with the late 1970''s era IOR rule. Pinched ends, high vertical center of gravity, large jib small mainsail rig proportions (not as bad on the 33), rudders that would stall out out when heeled and stability that was heavily dependent on crew weight on the rail. As race boats niether of these offered either good light air performance, nor good heavy air performance, nor good reaching performance. With enough weight on the rail, they did offer good upwind performance in moderate winds.

These were pretty well constructed boats boats for IOR racer/cruisers, but they are the textbook example in Marchaj''s "Seaworthiness, the Forgotten Factor" for the type of boat that should not be taken offshore. While these were reasonably competitive under the IOR rule, on any objective scale they are not especially fast and can be a real handful but not especially fast downwind.

Respectfully
Jeff
This guy obviously never sailed on a nicholson 33.

Greetz, Windglider (Nic33 owner)
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Old 06-01-2012
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Re: camper nicholson 33

reading this item with regarding the nicholson 345 does anyone have a pic of Tronador? i sailied this boat a few times as a youngster in the 80's also.
Amazing boat and loads of pedigree.

The owner of her at the time went on to have second injection (first) which was renamed Brada and then an OOD 34 which also was in the fastnet 79 race called Allamanda 2 and at the moment i am trying my best to look after her.
hopefully we will get her sailing again soon :0

martyn
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Old 06-01-2012
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Re: camper nicholson 33

CN built about 30 345s, after which they sold the molds and tooling to a Fast Yachts in Brazil, who went on to built approx 130 of them into the 1990s. Like so many builders this company is now defunct (and unrelated to the Fast Yachts in South Africa, AFAIK)

Fast 'crusified' the 345 considerably, replacing the forward pipe berth/sail area with a standard V berth, and converting the salon pilot berths P&S to large storage cabinets. The layouts, and the storage locker arrangements evolved throughout the production run with a number of variations. Probably the most significant change was made at some point when they went to a masthead rig.

We own Fast 345 Hull#41, with the standard (original) fractional rig. 3/4 at best, she's a little underpowered in the real light stuff. but comes into her own nicely on the beat at 6-8 knots true (that's without a genoa, just a working jib - btw a J 105 mainsail fits nicely)

She has a large rudder, and while there's no doubt the IOR 'shape' to the underbody, I think the smaller foretriangle of the frac rig mitigates a lot of the issues with this era of boat. We have owned and sailed other IOR beasts with all their propensity for death rolls DDW.. in 8 years we've yet to experience this with the 345. Since the headsails are relatively small we fly the spinnaker routinely while cruising.

The biggest 'surprise' on these boats (esp for what is essentially a late 70s design) is the totally usable aft cabin double - and this in a skinny a$$ed IOR boat with somewhat pinched ends. Good aft cabins are de riguer today, but they were near unheard of back then. I suspect that the interior is primarily CN's work, Holland probably provided hull and rig designs primarily, but I'm not sure about that. There is a large bridge deck that facilitates access and headroom in the aft cabin, and it does cut into cockpit seating somewhat, but at rest it's also a great lounging area and for two people the cockpit is adequate.

Another unique feature is the 'trunk'.. these boats came with a removable transom section that enclosed a liferaft cannister storage compartment. We use it for storing extra fuel, and when we're between garbage dropoffs we put that back there.. with a little ingenuity and glass work one could create a stern platform there to update the boat a bit.. but the ladder is a good one, deep and sturdy, and we've chosen not to mess with that.

So as someone familiar and accustomed to IOR boats and their foibles, this one is a mild version... whether the 303 or 33 would behave similarly I can't say.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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Old 06-01-2012
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Re: camper nicholson 33

OP, just be aware that Jeff has 110% disdain for anything that even vaguely smacks of 'IOR'. Sometimes he's quite right, and others, the baby is pitched with the bathwater.
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