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  #31  
Old 01-21-2010
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Hi, it's me, the OP, 3reefs. I seem to have stirred a very small hornet's nest with the Cape Horn reference.

To clarify, I'm not specificially looking for a round the great capes racing boat or similar. I'm looking for a cruising boat that can operate on any ocean passage. No concrete plan for the Horn, but I imagine many of you might share my fascination and ambition for the place? So at some point...

Which means I'd like the boat I buy and invest in and grow into to be one that offers the option of making that passage.

Re my draft list of boats all being unsuitable I respectfully disagree. These are all strongly made, decently designed boats of 35-40 feet. Even smaller boats of very similar designs have made the Horn passage. IMHO, there can be no 'guaranteed' boat for extreme conditions, but a decent boat sailed with good seamanship is certainly qualified to make the trip. I think the exploits of the Pardeys and Roths in their very modest vessels illustrate the point perfectly. The Roths first adventured down in those parts in a small Spencer for goodness sake. Provided the basic boat is soundly designed and constructed, there's no reason you can't modify where needed and end up with a very tough ocean boat.

Thanks for the plenty of tips and ideas that have been coming.
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Reefs View Post
5. Wauquiez Pretorien 35 (really not beautiful, but SO capable and practical).
Oh *SNAP*. Did you just call my boat ugly?

The Wauquiez Hood 38 mentioned earlier by someone looks like a slightly stretched Pretorien, of course larger interior, and is a dagger board keel (4' to 11').
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2010
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"Even smaller boats of very similar designs have made the Horn passage."
You could probably make the Horn in a forty year old open Grumman aluminum canoe--IF THE WEATHER HELD. The big problem is, down there the weather doesn't predictably or reliably hold very good for very long, and then it gets bad, it gets terribly bad. Bad enough to sink any one of those boats, even with an "iron crew" on board and able to still function.
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  #34  
Old 01-21-2010
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J40s and J42s have made the loop around the horn recently. Certainly a very different boat than a Pacific Seacraft or a Passport, but there is something to be said for moving that fast. There is a 1986 J40 listed for 99K.

Good luck. You have a lot of great boats on your list, and most importantly you have the dream.
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  #35  
Old 01-21-2010
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I realize a J will be faster in the right conditions, but I don't think that much faster over a long distance in the rough stuff.
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  #36  
Old 01-22-2010
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3 Reefs- Obviously you have your mind made up. I stand corrected. No use arguing with some one who has never been off shore in the big stuff and has his knowledge from a book. Just remember one thing, the people you cite have far more experience and talent that most of us. They also are willing to accept risks and hardships that most of us find unacceptable.

Strongly suggest you get a crew spot for a real offshore passage before you plunk down your life savings and head off into the sunset. Experience has a way of focusing you on what really is important in a true offshore boat.

Here is a challenge, how many of the people recommending boats to 3reefs have been offshore in 25-35 foot breaking waves for extended periods of time? How many of you have dropped off said waves repeatedly. How many have broached and slid down 25 foot waves and then had a trailing wave break over the boat? Obviously these are 5% conditions but they can and do happen. Just go outside form Norfolk to the Caribbean and get in a freak storm and be in the wrong place when it hits. It happens all the time including last week, check the news.
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  #37  
Old 01-22-2010
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As posted above any boat can round the Horn or sail in any other of the world's stormy capes on a good day. The trick is having enough good days in a row. Depending on the route taken a 50s to 50s Horn rounding can take 4 weeks or more. With gales at the frequency they arrive in this area you'll see a few without doubt. The Horn is as bad as it is because the fetch is great- in other words the wave pattern is unrestricted for thousands of miles and the gap it has to pass through is narrow. If you elect to go through the channels there are other problems to deal with, anchoring in great depths with 60 mph and stronger winds coming down the mountainside. The boat has to be rugged or you have to be very lucky - preferably both. And the boat is just part of the equation...
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  #38  
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Esteemed Sandusky, sarcasm becomes you. Of course, I'm sure your concern is well meant and that starting a fruitless argument was not your goal. I'm curious, though, how you so confidently discuss my sailing experience when we've never even met?

To put that to rest, here is my experience: approx 10,000 miles, nearly all of it on a Contessa 26 (now there's a real seaboat -- if only she was a whole size bigger!). I know 10,000 miles is not much by standards of many on this forum and quite possibly not by yours. That's because I haven't crossed oceans. What I've done is sail in all weather and a great variety of sea states around Europe, including a Biscay/English Channel single-handed crossing. This may not be Cape Horn experience, but I think I've earned the right to a bigger boat and bigger passages without bystanders making panic calls to the Coast Guard.

As for the Horn, I already repeated that it's not my immediate goal. I simply wish to apply that standard in my boat hunt. Then I would at least have the option one day. I might or might not be able to prepare myself personally for such an expedition. But I would like always to know that my boat would be capable. After all, I'm setting out to spend a good whack. I'll then pour more money, blood and sweat into her. So I'd like a boat I plan on keeping and improving and growing into. Not a boat with limitations in where she can go.

The Horn reference just focuses my search. It gives an identity to my short list.

Of course none of the boats I can afford and have on my shortlist are IDEAL for high latitudes. A 60-foot steel monster probably would be ideal. But we're talking about dreams and possibilities here. I just want a boat in which the Horn would be feasible.

As I said, the Roths cruised down there in a Spencer 35. A Contessa 32 -- great seaboat, but uncomfortable and small below -- performed well rounding the Horn the "wrong" way. Clearly there is no right answer. All I wanted was to engage my more experienced bretheren in a discussion about affordable, well built sailing boats that can (at least on paper) be safely managed in extreme corners.

Not sure getting on a high horse is very helpful. All best at sea and on land to you.
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  #39  
Old 01-22-2010
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3Reefs- I agree with you that most of the boats on you list are capable of, and many already have, circumnavigated. And as you point out, many lesser boats are out there all the time quietly doing their thing on the worlds oceans. Properly set up, rigged, and helmed, I have no doubt that the boats on your list would survive the conditions that Sandusky described. Obviously it wouldn't be fun, nor comfortable, but nothing short of about 200' LOA is going to be comfortable in those conditions. I see nothing wrong in your plans, or your budget, for finding a capable blue water boat that will safely take your family almost anywhere you desire. The adage about the boat being able to take more than you can is generally true. Best of luck in your search, keep us informed.
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  #40  
Old 01-22-2010
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Excellent 36 footer

I think your list should include a Pearson 36' cutter. A comfortable, strong, ocean cruser. I have one, it is well equipped, in great condition and for sale in Connecticut.
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