=== Pearson 30 Coaster = Vs. = Vanguard / Alberg - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 01-26-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
conquistatadore is on a distinguished road
Very interesting mr; Cool.

yes, its around 13000 lbs, full keel, and was built 40 years ago !
Not too many boats in that era (even newer full keel ones) were built to be FAST by today's std.
I don't think any 13000lb full keel would be a good light air boat, but it will hold its own in the heavy air.
Most of what you just described though is very typical in most boats i have sailed, with the exception of newer boats that dont have so much prop-walk.
My Catalina is a total nightmare to back out!
I hate it when it comes to reverse ....

Nevertheless i think the Alberg is still a great boat for what it is, and so do many people, and that's why they still have a big following. I know people personally that have sailed them all over the world!

I kind of understand their capabilities (strong and fairly stable) and as well as their short comings (old and narrow beam + old design).

But if you dont like them, i quite understand and thats fine too...
But at least you should put what you liked also (unless it was just a real piece of crap,... i highly doubt it)

My thinking is just so, that any boat can be a great boat if you spend the time to make it one and know its weaknesses and strength.

I raced motorcycles for many years and i went through the same dramas we i am doing here.
I eventually learned the good riders rode fast and well no matter what bike they rode on (most were on older bikes even) , and the bad ones just rode bad and stupid no matter what bike they had.

Off course a nice newer bike will make you go faster indeed and handles much much better.

It was just about fun for me, NOT winning. And i had the most fun on a Ducati 748, that was a pretty slow bike (100HP vs. 170hp on newer 1000cc bikes which i had one of those too!), simply because it was sooo much fun to ride! Easy and manageable, but it was the feel of the bike that was the best part (that Italian finesse and craftsmanship, but dont ask me about the temperamental aspect! ... small price to pay, hey she's IItalian... vat ya expekt !)

Boats are very much the same.
Its no different in sailing except speed is not the goal here (or you would buy a freaky power boat unless you are in a deserted island and have no choice), but just enjoying the sail without getting yourself thrown out or sunk in a crappy boat!

I love any sailboat no matter what as long as i sail and if all i can get is a $500 boat then be it. I dont want to think about what a piece of junk it is, since then i wont enjoy the sail.

It seems people can get very harsh about boats here that they dont like and it gets ugly..

its pretty funny...

I really doubt there are many boats that are just all BAD!
I am just not very interested in one sided reviews, that's all.
That will only piss off a lot of owners like Seebreeze.. that love their Pearson
or did or whatever...
(i dont own a Pearson yet...so..),
but if i do some day i will be after you guys ...hehe..

just kiddin...

One needs only to go to some of these poor countries and see the junks they sail all over the place in the sea and much BETTER than most of you think or can do (since they do it daily unlike us), to realize what i am talking about. But we are just too spoiled here ...

so;
having said that, it comes down to skills and experience of sailing, NOT what you ride, (unless its a show) but off course i'd not turn down a nice Beneteau or a Tartan...

Indeed i like to get a descent sailboat, and i appreciate all the feedback, specialy Mr; H
he sure knows his stuff...

My favorites so far are Islander, Cal, Tartan, and Pearson.
Seen a nice cascade too.
But its hard to find one that was well kept and fits in the budget.

Happy sail..

...here is what i call a real sailboat that has a 2 cyl. engine..


Last edited by conquistatadore; 01-26-2010 at 08:48 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 01-26-2010
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: MS Gulf Coast
Posts: 711
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
seabreeze_97 is on a distinguished road
Actually Jeff, I was referring to your statement of ownership, taking it to the next level. Do I have to sink a boat to know that THAT sucks? I have no knowledge of your family sailing history.

What's particularly weird now is how I'm being called one-sided by the O.P. Whatever.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 01-26-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
conquistatadore is on a distinguished road
Mr; Seebreeze;

Just wondering, have you owned a Pearson?
Curious about your point of view of the vessel...if you did!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 01-26-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Long Beach CA
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
COOL is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquistatadore View Post

yes, its around 13000 lbs, full keel, and was built 40 years ago !
Not too many boats in that era (even newer full keel ones) were built to be FAST by today's std.
Fair enough, among its contemporaries, designed in the
early '60s, nearly 50 years ago, the A35 was a good boat.
I think it is a fairly attractive design. The problem with boats
of that period is that they were just beginning to evolve
from the hull designs that were required to build a boat out
of wood. The fact remains however that only a few short
years later, production fiberglass boats made a quantum leap
in handling and performance. I cringe when people gaze
upon older designs and gush about how they make for better
and safer cruising boats than boats built a few years later.
After the family Alberg 35 was sold, it was rolled 360 and
dismasted on its delivery North to San Francisco.
Our next family boat was a Cal 40, while only designed a
couple years after the Alberg, it was a much better sailing
and cruising boat. If some one is considering an old 30'
boat for purchase, there is no compelling reason to go with
a boat that has poor sailing characteristics. The Cal 2-30
came out in the mid '60s and is a great boat as are early
'70s designs such as the Columbia 30 and Islander 30 II.
__________________
Islander 30 II 'COOL'
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 01-26-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
conquistatadore is on a distinguished road
mr; Cool;

I like the Cal boats and Islanders alot.
Columbia is good too, just not my style!

Almost bought a nice Cal 34, but it was out of town and sold before i got to it.

I'd love to get a nice Cal.!

How are the Cal 29? see alot of them for sale.
is it similar to 30?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 01-26-2010
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,498
Thanks: 4
Thanked 82 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
+1 el Conquistadore!
You typed: "It seems people can get very harsh about boats here that they dont like and it gets ugly..."
This always seems to happen to MacGregor 26 owners but when the hairs get split finely enough someone always feels put down.
Jeff_H's dispassionate analysis of this or that boat design standard has more then once raised the dander of the owner of an 'X' or 'Y' brand/model boat that was lower ranked then an 'A', 'B' or 'C'.
When we bought our Tartan 27' (1967) 7 years ago I had only done some minor research on the subject and did not even know that sailnet.com existed much less Jeff_H. In other words, I stumbled upon this little old boat and wanted it despite the advice of some friends saying it was too old and would need sooo much work. Instead, I bought the boat since it was in good condition (for it's age), entirely functional, appealed to me, was in my price range and appeared to be a high quality product in it's day (from my limited research 7 years ago).
When we race our T27 now I am certain that the owners of such boats as the Melges 24 among others really enjoy forcing us into foul air and extra tacks for no reason other then 'they can'. One day we may 'inadvertantly' t-bone one of their fast scows and have to rescue them from the water!
We also race against a Pearson 30' that always does well in our division. I have never sailed on a Pearson of any length but I have always admired them. There is a 26' Pearson that looks for all the world like my T27 with its full keel and dog house but minus the center board we have. Kind of like a not too distant cousin from the same era. The Pearson boats have a solid reputation, are well made and had I stumbled upon one that appealed to me that was in my price range I would have bought a Pearson instead.
I have a friend who bought a MacGregor 26 'S' model water ballast sailboat. While it is hardly up to the build quality of my sturdy old Tartan it is not the motorboat/sailboat crossbreed that can do 20 knots with a 50 HP engine (the 'X' and 'M' models - no offense intended to owners of these models). His Mac can only take a 9.9 HP and it sails nicely and faster then my old Tartan if a bit tender in a blow over 20k.
In fact there are many threads where people bash the MacGregor 26 as a lightweight half breed but I suspect that none of those posters ever set foot on one or even are aware that not all Mac 26's are the same boats they pretend to dislike.
It is really all about what floats your boat; whether it is a Lateen rigged Haitian work boat that can carry a heavy duty dump truck or a Melges 24 that is a menace! Every boat is a compromise as are most things in life that one must live with no matter what the 'hot rod' across the dock or street thinks about your ride.
Pearsons are good boats - coming from someone who is not an architect or has any credentials in the boat building world. Heck, the Allied Seawind ketch I was on was a nice boat that I was on and would be happy to call my own too.
For now I'll stick with what I've got no matter what anyone else thinks or says about it.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 01-27-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
conquistatadore is on a distinguished road
CalebD

thank you for the great feedback, i think you understand my pain..

First off i love your signature;
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Not sure who this ISak is, but he's on to something.
2nd;
I have gone through this "Dilemma" with motorcycles like i said;
(i found a great def. in wikipedia;
A dilemma (Greek δί-λημμα "double proposition") is a problem offering at least two solutions or possibilities, of which none are practically acceptable.
"being between a rock and a hard place"

except in race bike forums no one really dared to go that far (these racers are crazy people...except me off course ... )
I think sailors are a bit more mature perhaps... (i hope there are no MC. racers here... )

...anyhow, Reason is a razor that can cut in any direction, so one has to be careful on what one is cutting.

Jeff has his academic reasons and they are just as valid as any and i have learned something indeed. One needs to learn from others experience so we dont have to keep repeating the mistakes!

But, If you come to think of it, why would any one sail in their right mind?
It makes no sense at all, since it isnt done for any good practical reasons!
Its not like we are Vikings and need to go somewhere with it to fish or kill or explore on a slow a-ss sailboat !
Its dangerous, bad for your pocket (very very bad actualy), its super sloooow (i often laugh when i see a motor boat pass us at 30k while we crawl) and it has no practical use whatsoever (except some ladies find it romantic, so thats good..)

Its just fun, therapeutic in this crazy age to keep us crazy MEN (and nice ladies) sane, is somewhat nature friendly...and i am sure there are other good reasons (like your friend Isak)

ok, just my 2cents here...
and i have taken the thread into the cape horn by now, but oh well...


enjoy the sail;

Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 01-27-2010
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,502
Thanks: 3
Thanked 81 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
I only have a minute here but I think that it is a huge mistake to say, "My thinking is just so, that any boat can be a great boat if you spend the time to make it one and know its weaknesses and strength." Given your goals this is a huge mistake, the kind that can get you killed out there.

I road raced bikes back in the 60's and 70's. Like bikes, boats are designed for a particular purpose, and if used for that purpose work perfectly acceptably buit could be a killer if pushed beyond its capabilities. Back when I raced, guys would buy some street bike and put gummy tires on them and try to go racing. While these bikes were only merely slow on the straightaways, when it came to the high load turns their suspensions were so unpredicable that they would suddenly lose several feet of track often wiping out themselves or adjacent riders. Now then a really good rider might survive that unpredictable behavior, but in the hands of a normal driver, the result was road rash. Similarly, the street brakes of the era would overheat and suddenly leave the driver without brakes and haybales coming their way.

Also like bikes, over time our understanding of what makes for safe and reasonable risk has shifted. Not that long before I started racing biked, they did not wear leathers or full face helmits, they used drum brakes, exhaust systems were unshielded, without spark arresters and ran next to your calf or thigh. No one would consider it safe race on a bike like that today.

When you talk about doing serious offshore sailing in something like an alberg 35, you can think of it as racing at Daytona with a 1960's era road bike in blue jeans and piss-pot helmet. I'm sure that there are some excellent riders who could pull that off safely, or some moron whose loss no one would mourn, but for the rest of us mortals, its kinda like playing russian roulette with a gun that you picked up and did not even check to see how many bullets are in the cylinder.

You are new to this sport, and as I read your words this lack of experience comes across loud and clear. That is perfectly alright, we all had to start somewhere. My concern is the sense that this is all acedemic. Its not.

In any dangerous endeavor a reasonable person takes a while to learn and develop well reasoned opinions. Before you jump to conclusions, I strongly suggest that you slow down, do a bunch of sailing on a wide variety of boats, read everything you can, including up to date material, and then hopefully, you can come to a decision that makes sense to you, which may lead you in some totally new directions or may lead you back to the boats that you currently seem drawn to but at least at that point you would understand the risks.

Lastly, I want to comment on where you say, "Jeff has his academic reasons". I may express my opinions in an academic manner, but I have lived with and sailed on these kinds of boats in a wide range of conditions and my comments are based these experiences.

And just like bikes, when someone tells you can't use 1960's era drum brakes in a 100 mile road race, or someone tells you an Alberg 35 is a miserable boat in heavy going, perhaps beyond boarderline dangerous, especially when loaded to go cruising based on slugging it out in conditions that would not even be all that bad in a better design, you might want to pay attention whether it sounds merely academic or not.

Respectfully,
Jeff
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay and part-time purveyor of marine supplies
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 01-27-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Long Beach CA
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
COOL is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquistatadore View Post


How are the Cal 29? see alot of them for sale.
is it similar to 30?
The Cal 29 is actually very good boat,
they sail well in a wide range of conditions.
My one beef is that it is difficult to see over the
cabin house while sitting in the cockpit.
Cal built a series of 30'ers, Cal 30, 2-30, and 3-30.
I like the 2-30, which has a more powerful hull shape
than the 29 and is better in stronger winds.
The original Cal 30 is actually surprisingly fast despite
its more traditional design. And the 3-30 is a faster
boat upwind but Lapworth's hull designs of that period
started to show some influence of the IOR, which
produced a stern treatment that is less favorable
for reaching and running in a breeze.
The Cal 34 is generally a great boat for the money,
it is almost just a 30'er with long overhangs added
and is not much faster than the 29 or 30s. But it
is a good sailing boat that has a lively, responsive
feel for its size.
__________________
Islander 30 II 'COOL'
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 01-27-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
conquistatadore is on a distinguished road
cal boats

Mr; Cool,

based on what i have seen, Cal boats seem nice. The 34 was specially nice but missed out on that
I like Islanders too. (it looks like you own one). I looked at a 30 also that i was interested in buying.. very solid boat. As i was busy looking at it, another guy bought it... unseen...!
can you believe it ... .... ?!?
What a jerk ...hehe...

It seems a good boat is like a hot woman... everybody wants them!
Lot of nice boats out there for sure...

-------

As for Mr; H comments;

again i have to agree that you have certainly valid points i cannot argue with in regards to safety specially.

its stupid to race an old junky bike at 150mph! No doubt.
That wasnt my point at all and i never did (my race bike was actually brand new). In racing you never see a bike thats older than 2 years old max (but then you gotta see these vintage class racers, and you'll be surprised....)
But on the track, you see bikes that range all over and some of these oldies can kick some butt, trust me i have seen it a 100 times.
I have also seen how older race bikes break down as pieces start falling off or leak fluids while mid track... scary! (specialy if you are following one...)

But then i have seen so many of these OLD Pearsons being sailed all over the world, and how people brag about their integrity, so then again we are back to where we started... and thats old subject, so we'll leave that behind us and move on...

Anyhow, your point is well taken and understood and i thank you indeed for your safety concerns> I will certainly incorporate it into my decision in terms of safety and integrity of the boat. I really dont have any immediate plans to drown myself yet, or my friends, but i will certainly let you know if that changes in the future ..


Sincere regards.



Last edited by conquistatadore; 01-27-2010 at 04:43 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pearson Coaster value? AGENDASAILOR Pearson 1 06-24-2010 01:24 PM
Pearson 10M . am I crazy? This is not a fat keel boat Jasper Windvane Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 03-31-2010 02:33 PM
1966 Pearson Coaster whwilson Boat Review and Purchase Forum 4 11-04-2009 07:51 AM
Pearson 36 vs C&C 37 dnr Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 11-16-2002 04:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:50 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012