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-   -   Advice needed on bluewater capable boats (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/61827-advice-needed-bluewater-capable-boats.html)

Hmm 02-06-2010 08:34 AM

Advice needed on bluewater capable boats
 
Hi all. I've been reading and learning a lot since the summer here and now I think it's time to introduce myself and start asking opinions...
Well, around 20 years ago I was first time on a sailboat and loved the whole thing. Since that day, I had the dream of owning a sailboat and live abord for some time if not forever and sail around the Caribbean and then cross atlantic single handedly to Med and cruise around Turkey, Greece and Italy... This was just a dream to dream about until recently because of being merried with a child. Now, single again, I started actually planning things. It will probably take around 3 to 5 years for me to get prepared financially and experience wise. Meanwhile I have been looking for a suitably priced bluewater capable boat that cost around $ 15 k. Bristol 29, 30 and 32, Alberg 30 are the boats I found out to be suitable for what I want to do. Idea is to collect as much info and ideas as possible, then fly to US when the time comes and buy the boat then finally start sailing towards Caribbean...
** *Now, I would like to have your opinons and ideas about the boats. I want a boat around 30- 32 feet. With enough tankage, especially for water; shower preferebly within the boat, not a sun shower. So, do you think the price I set is realistic for a sound and capable boat? Where would be the best place to search for a good boat for the price I hope to pay. Living so far and trying to locate and hopefully buy a boat in US will be challenging I know but this part of the world is incredibly expensive to buy a boat, besides I want to cross the ocean only once just in case if I don't have the guts to do it the second time :)
All income is highly appreciated and thanks a lot in advance.

blt2ski 02-06-2010 08:52 AM

Are there not any Halberg Rasseys, older Jeanneau's, Beneateaus that would work for what you want local? To my mind, that would be simpler than coming over here, buying a boat, figuring out how to outfit here, vs at least there, you can live in your home/apt or equal, and do at a reasonable leisure.

Besides, do you really want an old shoe?

Marty

Hmm 02-06-2010 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blt2ski (Post 567589)
Are there not any Halberg Rasseys, older Jeanneau's, Beneateaus that would work for what you want local? To my mind, that would be simpler than coming over here, buying a boat, figuring out how to outfit here, vs at least there, you can live in your home/apt or equal, and do at a reasonable leisure.

Besides, do you really want an old shoe?

Marty

Do I want an old shoe? Actually that was one thing I try to find out by asking those... How good an idea is it to buy an old shoe and put my life in it?
You are right about finding a suitable boat around here and that was the original plan. Flying a EU flag would be much easier for me and refitting her and doing all the preparation at home would be much comforteble. But as I mentioned in my first post, boats are very expensive in Europe and even more expensive in Finland. Finland is not the place where lots of bluewater boats are awailable for sale and if found one, price would be way out of my reach including all necessary refittings. Buying one elsewhere in Europe is nearly as costly as buying one in US. Besides I really like the looks of Bristols :) But if a suitable boat is found I sure consider buying one here too...

sailingdog 02-06-2010 11:29 AM

I'd be surprised if you can't find an older HR up that neck of the woods. They certainly made enough boats...and most of their boats are very capable. If you consider the costs of flying, staying and buying a boat in the US, you'll find that the slight premium that you pay for buying one in the EU is reasonable. Especially, since importing an older US boat into the EU will be a royal PITA.

Finally, unless you can get a work visa in the US or are a US citizen, buying a boat here means that you're basically not going to be able to work while at the boat, and that you'll have to bear all the costs of room, board and pay for the upgrades and modifications you need done to the boat while in the US. If you bought the boat in the EU, you'd probably be able to get it close enough to you that you could work on it while you were still working.

mitiempo 02-06-2010 11:45 AM

I'd try the UK or the Netherlands for a good boat for what you want. There is a large selection to choose from in these countries. If you buy a boat in the US you will have to pay a large amount of duty when back in the EU. As far as a shower and water capacity, if crossing oceans I doubt you could carry enough water on any boat near 30' for regular showers.

Faster 02-06-2010 03:55 PM

Here's a YW search for Western Europe with your parameters (to 35 feet and $15K US):

(Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale Belgium

And the same for the Eastern US....

(Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale

Obviously a huge difference in selection, but at that budget not a lot of typical serious ocean going boats will pop up.

You're going to need patience, diligence and a bit of luck, I suspect, to find the perfect example.

mitiempo 02-06-2010 06:25 PM

The problem is that any boat in the size you are looking for that is within your budget will require upgrades to the rigging at the very least before heading offshore, and very probably electrical as well. The sails won't be newer and there will likely be less than you would like. Then there is the engine. Most boats in that price/size range will have the original engine. If a diesel it might only need a good going over, but it could be an Atomic 4 that's ready for the trash bin. I would budget a minimum of 10 to 15k for needed upgrades.

Hmm 02-07-2010 04:31 AM

Thank you all for the input :) I understand what you all mean by suggesting me to find a boat here in Europe. Almost every article or opinion I have read prior to my first post here suggested a ocean going boat should have full keel. Leaving Hallberg Rassy aside, I don't know a single boat with full keel in Europe. And a HR from seventies cost $50.000 or more. Add to this all the equipment to be replaced or fixed and I could only keep dreaming... When it comes to Beneteaus, I wonder how many people would consider crossing Atlantic in one; I wouldn't. Again, following this forum , I so understood that displacement of the boat is important. Neither Jeanneau nor Beneteau are heavy boats. And, again, heavily priced compared to the ones in US, very heavily indeed. Sailing is luxury in this part of the world but lifestile in North America and I can see that clearly in prices.
When I talked about shower, I did mean I needed one while I sail around Caribbean, not during the ocean crossing. That would be too valuable water to be wasted for showers :)
I am not planning to import it to EU ever because of the tax and CE certification. Instead, I would have state registration in the US and keep the boat in Turkey where things seem more reasonable and as long as I keep my US flag, things would work out smoothly :)
I recently found a Bristol 29, asking price is $ 7000 and owner says he consider all "real" offers. Another one is asking $ 11500 for a B32 from seventies. Put 15 k on that for fitting and 3 k for flight and accomodation in US and still far cheaper then buying a fin keel boat with nearly half the displacement of a Bristol or Alberg 30.
Well, I, as told before, I'm just asking for opinions and info at the moment and try to learn so when I am ready to hit the road for the actual shopping, I know what I look for therefore every opinion is very welcome and thank you all again :)

mintcakekeith 02-07-2010 05:59 AM

unless you are a us citysen i dont think you can keep the us flag and if you import to EU country vat and the rcd apply.there are boats available in UK and europe about your purchase price range but they would all need substantial amount spent on them to make blue water capable.Possibly a wharam cat may fit the bill as they are relatively cheap and usualy V strong and seaworthy .Also some of the Westerlies make good ocean cruisers .Keeping a boat in turky can get complicated as I understand that you have to post a bond when you leave it there. Best of luck Keith.

blt2ski 02-07-2010 08:37 AM

A number of folks on the Jeanneau owners forum sail there 29+ boats from England to the main land, even from Finland/sweden etc too. My 85 Jeanneau Arcadia has an open water cert from that time frame. I would consider sailing across open water for a day or two. Not sure I would want to do an Atlantic or pacific........but with proper planning etc, it could be done.

Also, this BS about full keels are the only ocean going boats.......just that BS. Look at the new HR's, Oysters. Swans etc, ALL are partial or fin keels. Also for the given length, will be faster due to the less wt of the boat. Along wth the ability to out run to a degree a storm. Altho at 30', the likely hood is slim. Now if talking an open 60 vs a full keel 60' boat, no issues. as open 60's can hit 20+ knots vs a full keel max is about 9-10.

Jeanneau Attalia's is a 32' boat from the 80's, very plentiful in Europe. I recall seeing prices in the upper teen to low 20K euro. From a quick exchange rate in my brain, a bit more money, but overall, still probably less than a boat from here.

The Ben oceanus, altho not my personal favorite, will do what you want. the First series, like an older 28, 30 or 32 will do what you want. Many are raced in double.single hand ocean races such as the transquandra. There is a person upfitting an older Jeanneau SO33 for such a race, as IIRC the requirement was a 10m boat.

Marty


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