Broker vs. FSBO

[Barquito]

Anyone have any idea what portion of boats (30' more or less) are sold by brokers versus by the owners. I am looking for a boat in this size range and wonder what chance I have of avoiding buying from a broker.

[eherlihy]

Why do you care about the market percentages? I can see why a broker might, but a prospective buyer...?

I have looked at maybe 6 out of 30 boats that were FSBO. I am checking out one tomorrow, in fact. I believe that sellers want exposure to as many buyers as possible. YachtWorld seems to have the most exposure, and all of the boats listed there are through brokers. Many FSBO boats are listed on eBay, and many on Craigslist.

A tool that I found helpful for scanning Craigslist is Sail Boat Listings. This provides a single search engine for all Craigslist listings throughout the US.

[Architeuthis]

Buying from an owner seems like a good idea but it rarely works out that way. I would suggest using a broker if you are not buying local. Owners are completely clueless when it comes to being able to see their boat for what it is.

On the other hand I do think the best deals are to be had there. It just takes more work.

[BarryL]

Hello,

I have bought 3 boats, two from brokers, one from the owner, and sold two boats myself (I have not used a broker to sell). I have looked at a fair number of boats, probably about 100.

There are good brokers and bad brokers, and good owners and bad owners. I would not try to generalize. I have had brokers tell me 'come on down, the boat is great' only to not be able to find the boat in the yard. I have had owners tell me the boat is in great condition, and when you get there, rainwater is over the cabin sole, and the owner says 'gee, I wonder when that happened.' I have also met great owners, honest and trustworthy, and I can say the same thing about brokers too.

I think that it's cheaper to buy from an owner, but not as easy. The bigger the boat and the more expensive the boat the more likely to have a broker involved.

Good luck,
Barry

[Barquito]

Buying from an owner seems like a good idea but it rarely works out that way....On the other hand I do think the best deals are to be had there. It just takes more work.

So, do you guys think I would get a better deal from an owner, or would it just be to much of a PITA.

I am starting this process assuming that it would be like buying a used car. The used car dealer will always ask more than the guy in the classifieds.

[Architeuthis]

I found that the owners were asking way more than the brokers. Of course at that time the market for boats was going down and owners are slower to respond.

It was also clear that many could not see their old piece of junk for what it was.

I do not think you are going to get a better deal from an owner but that is were the best deals are going to be.

If the owner and yourself could agree on what the market value is the tricky part is sharing the broker part. As a buyer you think that should mean a lower price. The seller thinks it is profit for him. Getting people to share that money is very difficult.

And while brokers know how to mislead they know they can get caught, owners on the other hand are much more likely to disappear after the sale.

I think the deals are to be had by finding the boat that isn't for sale. There are lots of boat rotting on the dock or the hook and often people will sell them at any price to get rid of that expense.

There are also boats that are being left in places because the dream failed and the owner just wants it over.

And there are boats that must sell quickly, for cash, at any price.

That is where the deals are. Brokers are allowed to buy and sell boats themselves (not ethical in my opinion) so when they find these deals they take them for themselves. At that point I'm sure you can see my problem with them. A seller goes to a broker to sell a boat quick and when the broker ends up with it...well we know how that happened.

So the best deals cannot be had with a broker. You have to compete with them for those deals.

I think if a person put some time into steady research of prices, markets and boats, then haunting the docks, the buy and sell ads, asking around, making offers of boats not for sale, they could save themselves thousands of dollars making it all worth while.

The easiest is to go with a broker, eyes wide open.

[BubbleheadMd]

Brokers and surveys are for protection. The protection of a buyer or seller. That protection comes at a premium. The smaller the boat, and the lower the price, the less it's worth to pay that premium.

I found my Coronado 25 listed for $2300.00. I talked the seller down to $1800. Would you pay a broker's fee for that? Would you pay $400 for a survey on that boat at that price or for $1800 would you roll the dice?

Yes, it's true. Many sellers are emotionally attached to their boats and all the sweat equity and cash that they've poured into it and they overvalue their boats.

In this economy, there are just as many owners who realize that the luxury market (yes, sailboats are a luxury, not a necessity) has taken a beating and have drastically reduced their prices.

Yes, hunting for the right FSBO can be a hassle but I think right now it's worth the reward.

Frankly, all I ever see around here are people griping about broker's commission and poor surveys. I rarely see anyone say "My surveryor was great! Worth every penny." or "Thank God I used a broker!"

Bottom line:
Fancy or expensive boat: Go with a broker and a surveyor AND back up the survey with your own detailed inspection. Don't just take the surveyor's/broker's word for it.

Cheap boat/old shoe: Save your money, do your own inspection and leg work. Roll the dice. If you can't afford to lose $3k or so, hold off until you can.

My newb opinion. Worth what you paid for it.

[Hudsonian]

Although you undoubtedly can find a boat without a broker, my experience buying through a broker was so overwhelmingly positive that I wouldn't want to buy a boat FSBO. The broker quickly helped me and my family identify a range of boats appropriate to our abilities, interests, and finances. He quickly honed in on what we favored and tailored the search to boats conforming with our preferences. He took us to see six, well screened boats per day for two days. He was knowledgable and forthright about the histories of many of the boats. We saved countless hours but not looking at boats that we wouldn't interest us and saved many more by not waiting to meet owners. We concentrated our search on boats located several hours from our home so these time savings were compounded by avoiding wasted travel time.

After we negotiated a price (subject to satifactory survey and sea trial) and I gave my deposit check, the process was painless. Exceptions found in the survey were corrected to my satifaction -- in fact, beyond my expectation. When I remarked on the thoroughness of the work to one of yard workers, he responded, "Don't worry about it. It comes out of the broker's commission."

On the morning we were picking up the boat we had to depart at 5:45 because of tidal currents. I was given the key to the yard, which also opened the chandlery. As directed, on the appointed morning we locked the gate behind us after we entered, unlocked the chandlery, put the key on the counter besiode the cash register, and locked up as we left.

Upon getting the boat home, I found one of the alarm buzzers wasn't functioning. The failure had not been picked up in the survey. The yard sent someone two hours to replace it at no charge. I don't think your'e going to get that kind of service from the owner of a boat FSBO.

[LandLocked66c]

Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd

Bottom line:
Fancy or expensive boat: Go with a broker and a surveyor AND back up the survey with your own detailed inspection. Don't just take the surveyor's/broker's word for it.

Cheap boat/old shoe: Save your money, do your own inspection and leg work. Roll the dice. If you can't afford to lose $3k or so, hold off until you can.

My newb opinion. Worth what you paid for it.

Exactly the way I saw it for my circumstances... Well said!

[xort]

hudsonian
you are not going to get that kind of service from 95% of brokers either. Consider yourself very lucky. How old was this boat?