Example of broker raising owner's unsuccessful price - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-22-2010
SPC SPC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 106
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
SPC is on a distinguished road
Example of broker raising owner's unsuccessful price

How typical is this?

An owner lists a boat for X amount in a public forum of a large boating city. (The X amount is well north of $75K). After it doesn't sell, the owner enlists a broker who posts the boat more publicly at nearly 50% more. Wow!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 02-22-2010
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,188
Thanks: 32
Thanked 73 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
What's your point?

If he gets his price, more power to him.
If he doesn't, it doesn't sell. It wasn't selling anyway which is why he enlisted a broker after his own marketing efforts failed, so he's no richer, no poorer and the world continues spinning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 02-22-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
The broker is trying to sell the boat for as much as possible to make as much money on it as possible. The price he sets may not have anything to do with what the boat is actually worth, and he is probably hoping for a dumb buyer with more money than sense to come along.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 02-22-2010
Zanshin's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,195
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Zanshin is on a distinguished road
Remember that the seller pays 10% brokerage, so a $100K boat now needs to sell for $110K in the owner's eyes, then the broker says that there will need to be negotiating room and put a 20% markup and suddenly the asking price becomes $132K - if it sells for that then the broker is well worth his money!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 02-22-2010
SPC SPC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 106
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
SPC is on a distinguished road
First, I'm not attacking anyone involved the transaction, but I am interested if similar mathematics likely apply to the majority of listed prices. Maybe this is the best way to set a price.

In this case, the negotiating range (difference between listed price and a price at which the seller would close, even after paying 10% broker's fee) is about 25% of the listed price.

Is that typical in your experience? I certainly see how it could work. I can see why a buyer would think that he was was getting a bargain if he managed to negotiate a 25% reduction in price, especially if listed prices for similar boats were in a reasonably close range.

I am also aware of BUC prices, NADA prices, and listed and selling price data available to brokers, but these sources are of limited use when the boat is not common. For uncommon boats, there are few data points, especially since the housing collapse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 02-22-2010
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,278
Thanks: 1
Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
tommays will become famous soon enough
Well

I just sold my J24 in Dec without issue BUT i made the mistake of asking a fair and correct price

There seemed to be a LOT of people who felt that despite the boat not having any deficiencies they needed to pay lower than the asking price to feel they got a good deal

I could have asked thousands more and come down so they would feel good and might just ask for to much in the future so i have wiggle room
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 02-22-2010
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,188
Thanks: 32
Thanked 73 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
The biggest reason why FSBO boats don't sell is the seller prices his boat too high based on "asking" prices he sees nationally, and a refusal to budge on the price.

The biggest reason FSBO boats sell within a week is because the seller priced the boat too low, and after receiving 35 phone calls AFTER the first buyer rushed over waving cash, the buyer is kicking himself.

The biggest rason that uncommon FSBO boats don't sell and end up with brokers is because the seller doesn't know how to market his square peg. A free ad on a local website for an oddball boat in the high five figure/ low six figure range ain't much of a marketing strategy, and it is typical of many would-be sellers.

So, where's the balance? That is where a broker comes in.

When it comes to production boats, the broker has to balance three factors:
1) owner's expectation of what a boat is worth.
2) what comparable boats have sold for in the region, nationally and internationally.
3)Duration of listing.

If an owner wants top dollar for his boat, and isn't in a hurry to sell it, or doesn't NEED to sell it, then a good broker will tag it at the upper end, and then arket it like it is worth the price- lots of exposure, lots of pictures, lots of advertising, lots of urging the owner to keep it clean and ready for showing, and a good broker will also make sure the owner understands the boat is going to need to be on the market for a year to get his price.

When it comes to one-offs, unique or uncommon boats, all bets are off. Wharram cats are really cool, for example, and an ideal boat for the south pacific/ caribbean, but trying to sell one in Seward AK or Hot Springs AR is gonna be tough sledding. A broker who understands that weird stuff requires more marketing effort is vital if you want to get your white elephant gone, let alone sold at anywhere near what you are asking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 02-22-2010
4arch's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 509
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 6
4arch is on a distinguished road
Unless someone specifically states the asking price is "firm" I'm going to assume they're asking for more than they expect to get regardless of the condition of the boat or how low the asking price might be in relation to comparables. And even with a "firm" price I'd probably still make an initial offer below asking. To me, price negotiation is a critical step in establishing a working relationship between seller/broker and buyer. It's a way for both parties to gauge how serious the other is and to see how reasonable they're going to be about working through the remaining steps of the transaction.
__________________
s/v Spindrift
Beneteau Oceanis 400
formerly Lippincott 30
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 02-22-2010
blackjenner's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: in a condo
Posts: 250
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 5
blackjenner is on a distinguished road
It makes perfect sense to me. The boat may or may not be worth the original owners price. The broker also has to make a living (commission) and may indeed be pumping the price to give negotiating room.

That never offends me. The first price is what they would like to get.

It doesn't mean that is what I will offer.

Prices are highly variable. Some people are really proud of the things they have for sale. You have to find a price where you get what you want and they still have some pride in getting a good price for something that was valuable to them.

For instance, I'm looking at a 45' ketch.

Boat #1: Private owner, not highly equipped -- $140K

Boat #2: Through broker, well equipped -- $109K

Prices are variable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 02-22-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 536
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Architeuthis is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
Well

I just sold my J24 in Dec without issue BUT i made the mistake of asking a fair and correct price

There seemed to be a LOT of people who felt that despite the boat not having any deficiencies they needed to pay lower than the asking price to feel they got a good deal

I could have asked thousands more and come down so they would feel good and might just ask for to much in the future so i have wiggle room
I hate when that happens but I still do it.

This why Brokers are often worth the price. They can handle all that crap.

I had a car I wanted out of the yard, it was in running cond but old and wouldn't pass any inspection. So I park it at the end of the driveway with a $100 sign. People would look at the car, have me start it and then point out problems with it. When they pointed out some rust or a scratch, or some other problem I would only answer, "Its a $100 car." I must have said that a dozen times until I said forget it and took it off the market. I eventually sold it for alot more than $100 but selling stuff is real work.

Often you have to raise the price a lot before people will buy.
__________________
Have faith that the oceans are going to rise and flood the world, that plague and pestilence brought on by Climate Change is going to punish us for not believing. Please do as they say it is our only hope. :P
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:36 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.