Interesting Sailboats - Page 105 - SailNet Community
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post #1041 of 6763 Old 05-21-2011
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Thanks a lot, Paulo and Ulf!

These are indeed very similar curves, as one can expect from similar designs.
And I have been already told never to sail except with the keel fully down !

Only the absolute values of the righting moment are quite different. Is that relevant from a security point of view or is the shape of the curve most important?

Thanks again for your expert opinions!

Best regards,

Eric
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post #1042 of 6763 Old 05-21-2011 Thread Starter
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Ulf and Eric,

Yes, they are very similar. As I have thought the one from the racing boat is marginally better, with just a bit better AVS. A very good stability curve with plenty safety stability and a good AVS

Eric, the numbers are different because those are different curves. The one I have posted is a GZ curve. It is about the size of the arm. the units are meters. The one that Ulf posted is a RM curve. The shape is the same but that one is the one that measures the real thing, the righting moment. The units are Tones for meter.

Regarding what I have said regarding the force that the boat is making to right itself up, to be correct, it is on that curve (RM) that you should measure that. The RM curve is obtained multiplying in each point of heel the GZ by the boat displacement.

And Eric, I am no expert, just a guy that likes to understand things, particularly boats. Experts are the ones that design them .

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-21-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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post #1043 of 6763 Old 05-22-2011
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Thanks a lot again Paulo, for what certainly is an expert opinion.

I think you need to be an expert to point out the difference between the length of the righting arm and the resulting righting moment. And an excellent moderator to explain the correct interpretation clearly in just a few words.
I also very much like to understand things, but this thread helps me a lot to look a bit further than B/D ratio, draft, beam and AVS.

And of course I am now very happy to read and understand that I did not make a bad choice, at least when it comes to stability !

Best regards,

Eric
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post #1044 of 6763 Old 05-22-2011
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The greatest sailboat (Cruiser, Racer, cruiser/racer)) under $1Million is the Dragonfly 1200 w/o a doubt. Now if you can live with the price good for you. I feel its about $200k overpriced.

The Sirius Werft 35ds (thanks Paulo)is up there if you have a family to consider along with the Fantasi Yachts 44 Pilot House out of Sweden. Both are the perfect family cruising boats.

Then you have the American classics semi custom (40ft) Morris, Shannon, Hinckleys

For me after that its a toss-up between these boats

Najad 440 CC
The new X-yachts 42c
Pacific Seacraft 40
Moody 45DS

This RM1350 though has some appeal.
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post #1045 of 6763 Old 05-22-2011 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbatete View Post
The greatest sailboat (Cruiser, Racer, cruiser/racer)) under $1Million is the Dragonfly 1200 w/o a doubt. Now if you can live with the price good for you. I feel its about $200k overpriced.

....
Welcome to sailnet and to this thread in particular. I think you are exaggerating about the Dragonfly 1200. I think they should make a new boat to replace that one. It is an old one and not really deserving to be among the other Dragonfly. If they gave me to chose between the 1200 and the 35 I would chose the 35 in a heartbeat. The 1200 is slow and heavy, not really faster than a fast performance cruiser like the Pogo 12.50 or the Zou 40.2 and a lot more expensive with no more interior space and a much smaller cockpit. But that is just my opinion. I look forward to the boat that will soon substitute that one (I hope).

For Nemier that is looking to fast trimarans, a new one, the carbon 3 by Nigel Irens. Well it has no interior but it has certainly speed .






A damed fast 40fter:

Just look at this movie:

YouTube - ‪Carbon3 First seatrial‬‏

Carbon3 by Tuco

Regards

Paulo
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post #1046 of 6763 Old 05-22-2011
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Its funny how ones taste in interior can change. I was involved in the furniture industry many years back and at the time all I wanted was a pale beech or ash interior, alternatively while paint with some simple timber trim a'la Herreschoff.

Since owning Raven I've come to revise my thinking. She has a dark timber interior and rather than being oppressive I find it calming and surprisingly enough no great problem in warm/hot weather.

Our new boat is also dark timber interior. She has in effect a fully enclosed cockpit and my gut feeling is that we will spend most of our time up there even in winter as the enclosure with it solid screen is to a large extent a deck saloon with a drop top.

Anywho, Chimbatete, you overlooked one obvious contender from your list ..



Malo

This is the new M40 which replaces the M39.


Andrew B

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett, Nation

Malo 39 Classic
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post #1047 of 6763 Old 05-23-2011
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I did exaggerate abit on the 1200. They do need to change it up. The DF35 is kinda the perfect size but the seperate cabin of the 1200 is just a a major plus and very unique (which fits this thread).

I find the Malo's and HR's interiors not to my taste. I prefer the modern open interiors like the Najads, Hanses, X Yachts. The No-frills (Ikea) interior of the RM's works for me. Although the Morris 42 interior is drool inducing.

Silly question for you guys, big open cockpits thats found on cruiser/Racers like the x-yachts etc, good for the open ocean?
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post #1048 of 6763 Old 05-23-2011 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbatete View Post
I did exaggerate abit on the 1200. They do need to change it up. The DF35 is kinda the perfect size but the seperate cabin of the 1200 is just a a major plus and very unique (which fits this thread).

I find the Malo's and HR's interiors not to my taste. I prefer the modern open interiors like the Najads, Hanses, X Yachts. The No-frills (Ikea) interior of the RM's works for me. Although the Morris 42 interior is drool inducing.

Silly question for you guys, big open cockpits thats found on cruiser/Racers like the x-yachts etc, good for the open ocean?
I agree with what you say about the interior space of the Dragonfly 1200. That's why I really would love a new one, lighter and with a performance close to the 35, even if I will never be rich enough to have on unless I win the lotery

I can understand your taste for less classical design on the Najad interior but mixing Hanse's interiors and Ikea style (and quality)? Nah, you can have the Hanse's interiors to yourself (and that's a big advantage to like that because they are a lot less expensive).

I have to say that even if I like some modern interiors I like also the warm that a classic interior provides. I would have changed most modern interiors by the quality and coziness of a Malo interior. I partially agree regarding the Halberg Rassies. Great quality quality but an overall worse design quality if compared with Malo's.

Take a look at this Malo interior. I would not mind to live there permanently

YouTube - ‪Malö 47‬‏


Regarding the open cockpits, the answer is yes. These boats sail fast with bad weather and you will never be hit strongly from behind by a wave but if a lateral small breaking wave hit the boat laterally, in a closed cockpit boat you will have tons of water on the cockpit that will take time to go away. In the meantime you have a boat with a damaged stability. On an open cockpit the water comes in...and go out in a split second. Regarding going overboard, you should be clipped to the boat in bad weather, so that's irrelevant.

For me the ideal situation is an open cockpit with a seating bench on the back. Most of the boats that have an open cockpit offer that as an extra.


Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-23-2011 at 07:49 AM.
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post #1049 of 6763 Old 05-23-2011 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Its funny how ones taste in interior can change. I was involved in the furniture industry many years back and at the time all I wanted was a pale beech or ash interior, alternatively while paint with some simple timber trim a'la Herreschoff.

Since owning Raven I've come to revise my thinking. She has a dark timber interior and rather than being oppressive I find it calming and surprisingly enough no great problem in warm/hot weather.

Our new boat is also dark timber interior. She has in effect a fully enclosed cockpit and my gut feeling is that we will spend most of our time up there even in winter as the enclosure with it solid screen is to a large extent a deck saloon with a drop top.

Anywho, Chimbatete, you overlooked one obvious contender from your list ..



Malo

This is the new M40 which replaces the M39.

Andrews,

The reason there are not Malos on this thread is because they have not a new model for ages (they only change each model once in a decade ). The last one was the 37, three years ago or something like that (great boat). Has you already know, when that 40 come to the market (6? years ago) that was my dream boat. It has still one of my preferred interiors. I love their saloon table system. Even if the standard boat comes with mahogany but as you know there are a lot of different types of mahogany and the one they use it is a clear type of mahogany, much clearer than the one that was used on the Dehler and in many boats, like the Bavarias for instance.

Today I favor a faster boat but I have still a soft spot for the Malo 40 and if I could I would have a faster boat with the building quality of the Malo. But I can't, it would cost a fortune (it would be a Luffe or a X-yacht).

Regarding the 39, It has a great interior, not different in style or quality from the one from the 40:

By any chance do you know this boat

YouTube - ‪Malo 39 hand built in Sweden by Team Windcraft YT.m4v‬‏

It has a cozy and good looking interior

That's the teak platform that I was talking about (on the other thread):





The Classic version is much more beautiful, has more storage space but as you are going to find out, it is not easy to come aboard from the dinghy, groceries and all. This nice platform removes that inconvenient.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-23-2011 at 09:06 AM.
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post #1050 of 6763 Old 05-23-2011
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Paulo,

Seems to me that a boat with an open cockpit with enough weight is the way to go for offshore contrary to what you read in forums like this one.

I'm pretty new to sailing (5 years) starting crewing for my wifes uncle. I sail in Lake Ontario and I'm surprised that even hardened racers of 30 years have never ventured out of the lake. At the same time 70% of the boats are C&C and CS. But in a way its a good lesson on following reality (what you are really going to use the boat for) instead of fantasy (rounding cape horn) when getting a boat. But to me, I want to be able to know that I can reach the Carribean in our winters when I get older given the option.

Anyway, my contribution being from Canada. (Underrated country with great boat building traditions.

The Gozzard 41. I love this family run company and with their bulletproof hulls and innovative interiors. Highest quality throughout. It just seems like a very traditional slow boat and I also cant afford one.

YouTube - ‪Gozzard 41.mov‬‏

1974 CC 27

Last edited by Chimbatete; 05-23-2011 at 09:55 AM.
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