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  #1061  
Old 05-25-2011
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tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Paulo,
I agree re grid. Steel structure will be to Malo specs.
Cheers
Andrew
(Now get back on topic ... )

though I do thank you for your advice.
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  #1062  
Old 05-26-2011
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Showed spouse the Evosion 34 pics last night, YUCK!! was her comment, inside was not very salty, boaty, ala lots of teak or equal wood type stuff.......harrumph! oh well, not that I could afford one, or an X as she likes........can always dream!

Marty
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  #1063  
Old 05-26-2011
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Hey Marty, you are going to love this one, a small boat, the Juwel 28 also known as the Broker 28. Never heard about it till I saw an interesting movie and thought: a hell of a boat .

It is a Danish boat. I love Danish boats, it is incredible how such a small country as so many great boats (X yachts, Luffe, Faurby, Nordship). This one is a 10 year old design but is just beautiful. Enjoy the videos. Nice music too

YouTube - ‪Team ICE Mors Cup 2009 - Fast sailing, 35 knots tws‬‏

YouTube - ‪GoPro HD as headcam - racing with teamice.dk‬‏

Juwel 28





Regards

Paulo
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  #1064  
Old 05-27-2011
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First Jeanneau 376 photos and more Drawings.

The boat does not look bad but the high free-board is a lot more apparent than on the Jeanneau 409

After the Jeanneau 409 it would be difficult to do better or even just as good. The interior looks good, but nothing outstanding. The port hulls on the saloon are high and will not provide a good view from the outside. The Galley seems very good for a 38ft, with lot's of storage space. The head, on the two cabin version seems also very good for the size of the boat, with a separated shower. The interior of the 2 cabin version is much better: Nicer saloon with two berths instead of one and much better head.

The keel solution with a center board is very interesting, providing as bonus two rudders.

On the short draft keel (the one that is posted) the rudder is about at the same level as the Keel. I don't like it and seems dangerous to me in case of grounding. This means that probably that boat has a good wheel control but also that the designer have designed it with a deeper keel, the one that is standard, with 1.95m. I would not have the boat with the 1.50m keel, what they call a lifting keel, that is in fact a short keel with a center board seems a better solution to me.






























more photos here:

YouTube - ‪New Jeanneau Yacht 379 Sun Odyssey Sailboat for sale By: Ian‬‏

Last edited by PCP; 05-27-2011 at 06:03 AM.
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  #1066  
Old 05-27-2011
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Paulo,

the info on the 379 has not been forthcoming, a little here, a little there.....some of those I had not seen, all info you have has been released in the last week or so.

It does seem a lot of upper crust boat owners are doing the power thing. Probably because they are easier to handle etc, they owner does not like the heeling etc. PLUS the power yacht can get there sooner etc etc.....

I had not seen the dutch boat either. Now come to think of it, my step dad who taught me to sail is dutch! any way, off to the boat for a bit.

Marty
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Old 05-27-2011
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Too early in the morning for me right now, and a few stressfull things going on, so probably not seing the differences right now. Apologies to all danes I insulted!

Back to finishing a few work things, boat things, maybe a weekend of rest and no stress! maybe.......

Marty
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  #1068  
Old 05-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Too early in the morning for me right now, and a few stressfull things going on, so probably not seing the differences right now. Apologies to all danes I insulted!

Back to finishing a few work things, boat things, maybe a weekend of rest and no stress! maybe.......

Marty
Marty,
Danes are from Denmark, Dutch are from Netherlands, they are neighbors and that means that in their long past they had necessarily some conflicts between them. A bit like calling Spanish to Portuguese or calling Texans, Mexicans, if you follow my drift

Netherlands also makes some very nice boats but they are a lot more conservative and they have being paying for that. Their production and number of boats has decreased.

Attention to all of you that like beautiful well made blue-water boats with a traditional outlook: take a look at the boats that are made in Nederlands.

They have a big problem however, like all boats make this way, they are expensive.

Some Dutch boats:

Contest Yachts | Home

Victoire Yachts

C-Yacht zeiljachten | Zeiljachten van klasse uitgeroepen tot zeiljacht van het jaar

Home

Atlantic Aluminium zeiljachten | home | Atlantic Yachts

Breehorn Woudsend

Naamloos document

Bijko Jachtbouw - home Noordkaper 40

Zeiljachten

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-27-2011 at 12:08 PM.
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  #1069  
Old 05-27-2011
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paulo,

I think there are MANY country's and regions that have the conflicts you speak of! Here in Wa state where I am, there is those of us west of the cascade mtns, them swines east in the desert on the other side of the mtns....LOL

We had a exchange student from Denmark the same age as my sister, 3 yrs younger when they were sts in High school. So got a bit of the difference. And a lady I did some work for many years ago was also from Denmark, bragged ALL about there chocolate, best in the world!

All parts of the world have things that might be better than the part you are in for various and sundry reasons. Now if we can stop the blinking wars etc, and realize, we are the same, dispite some differences in the way and where we live for what ever reason!.........that was probably lost back when Adam ate the apple! or was it Eve?!?!?!?

Marty
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  #1070  
Old 05-27-2011
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I checked the search engine and didn't find any test sails so I figures I'd throw this out there as it is first hand experience from last week in the Med on two boats that have found their way to this thread but without much info.

First sail for 2 1/2 days on a 2009 Bene Oceanis 37:

Region was Pourquerolles - about 50 miles 2 days. F2-3.

First impression is it looks and feels like a 35. Interior is standard - this was a 3 cabin model - with moderate storage, good headroom, poor nav station. - Note that I hate the bench / nav station looking backwards. galley was fine, ventilation was fine, cabin space and headroom was 35 footer - very similar in size to the SO 35i I sailed for 10 days a couple year back. Build quality is OK, systems and engine access is OK at best.

Sailing wise, it was a nice suprise. 6.2 to 6.5kts from about 42° thru full offwind (without a Spi)in 13 kts wind. We could point to about 38° and maintain speed while actively managing the rudder. Best was around 40-42. Hit 7.7 on a couple of occasions downwind on main and genois. Stable, very good control, predictable motion, good feedback and fingertip controls. Deck gear was undersized for heavy weather but the boat felt very good under sail. Not sport boat sailing but much, much better in helm control and feel than the SO 35i. Overall an interesting boat that needs to improve on interior build materials and quality but that has very good sailing potential. We were double handing.

After 2 1/2 days we swapped out to a Bavaria 42 due to transmission problems on the 37 (worn cone cylinder and they needed to pull the engine.... ouch!)

The Bavaria 42 was from 2007 so not a spring chicken after 5 years of charter but the first impression was that it was huge under deck. Well over 2M headroom, large cabins with good storage in fore cabin, OK in rear cabins. 2 toilets with showers and a port galley. Real chart table and nav station. The quality is much better than the SO or Oceanis in that it is full wood on anything carrying a hinge. No particleboard. very well aged with few if any signs of the beating it must have taken over the years (Kiriakoulis was the charter company in Bormes les Mimosas, France). Getting around the table was a bit tighter than expected and it could use more readily accessible storage in the main and rear cabins but overall I was impressed with the build quality and durability. (Note I always thought of Bavaria as the motor home of sailing so I was more than pleasantly suprized...)

Under sail it's not a beast or very fast but it works just fine. In light winds the boat worked very well in the 39 to 42° range. 9 kt wind we were close to 5.5kts at 40°, 12 kts we were hitting 6.5 at about 40°. Once the wind hit the 14-15 kts we could point higher in the 37° range at about 6.8kts. Offwind, once beyond 65° we were at 7.3 to 7.5 in the 14 kts wind range. Downwind (without a Spi) the boat slowed to about 6.5kts. You need a big kite downwind to keep the speed. One note is there is a fair amount of leeway - I estimate about 7° when pointing upwind at less than 7 kts wind. Good motion, decent rudder feel. Wheels got stiff around 7.5 to 7.8 kts and I'd guess around 8.2-8.3 you need to reef down to keep rudder balance. Overall the deck hardware was well adapted to the size and power of the boat (we had a furling main). I was impressed overall on the durability and pertinence of the design. It's not sexy or fancy but it does "work". The cockpit layout was a bit snug with the center table making it difficult to single hand or double hand in tough circumstances (foresail winch sheets are far apart and the table is smack in the middle to move from one to the other). Not a showstopper, but annoying to me because I like to have everything a step away. Autonomy is good on water and diesel. Fairly pronounced prop walk to port which makes docking under a strong starboard wind a bit tricky (It took 2 tries...). Establish 2 kts and it's fine however - just need to understand and compensate. We were 6.

Overall, I was pretty impressed with the build quality of the boat. Much better than the French mainstream stuff I've sailed on (Dufour 325, SO 35i, Oceanis 37, etc). Doesn't sail "better" than those boats and of the 3 mentioned the Oceanis 37 is a nice sailing boat. Depending upon your program and needs, the Bavaria is really a good boat. Plain vanilla in many ways, but it's pretty good, plain vanilla.

Happy to add more for those specifically interested in the boats mentioned. I have a personal preference for sportier boats as I've noted in previous posts.

Last edited by bb74; 05-27-2011 at 03:55 PM.
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