Interesting Sailboats

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Capado

....
After our navigation from Gibraltar to Canarias, we'll be able to estimate better how we get to actually live on board at sea, as so far we only did small jumps from one or two days max.
A French Magazine came onboard to try the boat, although you need to subscribe to read it. And it is in French.

Regards

I have read the test on the paper magazine. That's why I have asked if the keel was already functional. They say on the test that the lifting system was not finnished

Keep us posted and fair winds to you

Regards

Paulo

[blt2ski]

Paulo,

So I was correct in that the "nav area" if you will, was that foldable table to the aft of the mast....ok, I can handle that. In reality, quite possibly a "better" place that where the storage unit is on the port side, that would be more atypical of that floorplan. Ie where it is on my 85 Jeanneau, but most of my stuff flipped flopped if you will. Ie head nav is on the starboard, galley, aft stateroom on port.

any way, life goes on.

Nice to see the owners of the F1020 popping in with info! look to see more.

marty

[JAndersB]

Here is a link to their (Capado) web page/blog. Interesting pictures from the building of the Fox 10.20.

CAPADO creative boat

regards,
Anders

[daviid]

Hi folks

Has anyone had anything to do with Kiriacoulis and more specifically their yacht management program? They offer various schemes that allow you purchase a yacht from an approved yacht list. In exchange for the yacht being used in their yacht charter fleet for the duration of the agreement - 3.5 years or 5.5 years - you are given personal use rights that are season dependent but can add up to our required 12 weeks and they cover all expenses including marina charges and maintenance. At the end of period, the yacht is surveyed before being removed from the charter fleet or alternatively a new deal can be negotaited. In addition, you are able to use a similar yacht at any of their bases in the Mediterranean and Caribbean. The scheme has some attraction for those that will only be able to use their yacht for 3 months a year. The downside is that you are restricted in the choice of boat which brings me to my second question.

The yachts that are available in the 35 to 38 foot range are the following - Jeanneau 36i, Beneteau Oceanis 37 (the First range is not available), Bavaria Cruiser 36, Dufour 375 and believe it or not the Dufour 34e. I have asked Kiriacoulis if they would allow for some level of customisation on the yachts to improve their performance including opting for the performance version of the Jeanneau and upgrading the standard specs to suit performance cruising on the others. I have also enquired whether they would consider a Salona 37 or an Elan 350 but I am afraid not.

We would be using the yacht for coastal cruising and would prefer to have a yacht that gets us from A to B fast We have no intention of racing or entering regattas but who knows.

After looking at all the usual performance and safety ratios, my take is as follows:

Jeanneau 36i - definitely would prefer the perfomance package, like the looks, seem to have a solid reputation for build quality and resale value. Still not sure about the weight (load bearing capability) particularly if we want to do the ARC one day and re-locate the yacht to the Caribbean. Separate shower below decks in 2 cabin version a definite plus for liveaboard. We are chartering one in September in Croatia. Could always wait for that Jeanneau 379

Beneteau 37 - seems to be a good compromise between performance, safety, comfort and price. The polar charts actually show that the yacht is quicker than the Jeanneau 36iP! With a LOA at 11.48, beam at 3.92 and weight at approx 6350 kg, there will be more tankage and load bearing capability than the Jeanneau and the Dufour 34e. Loads of comments in the forums about poor quality finishes and most worrying that the hull is not as good as it should be though.Anyone know the STIX rating?

Bavaria Cruiser 36 - seems to have a hull that is really well built and with the right options could be a quick boat BUT I personally don't like the look that much - yachting monthly have just described it as a bloated whale and scored it 77/100 pts. Also the interior doesn't do it for me. I like contemporary but the Ikea look could get to you eventually. At 7,000 kg's the yacht is the heaviest by far which can't help in light winds. Really good value though. Anyone have the polar chart for this yacht?

Dufour 375 - great looker IMO, seems to be very beamy though and the SA/D at 18.5, although not bad, is quite a bit lower than the others. I have really struggled to find the polar charts for this yacht as well as the STIX and AVS ratings but to no avail, so I don't have the full picture yet. Also it is the most expensive - about 7% more than the Beneteau and the Jeanneau. Polar chart, STiX and AVS would be most welcome

Dufour 34e - Again a great looker (IMO), has a racing pedigree with great comfort thrown in but it also the smallest and lightest and therefore not sure about its cruising capability. With a mast height of 15.1m, it is also possibly a little under sheeted - seems to be confirmed by comments in the forums - unless you opt for a taller rig but this requires a visit to your sailmaker which is not going to work in a yacht management program. I am thinking of chartering this boat for a week in October in Croatia for a first hand experience. Again polar chart, STIX and AVS would be most welcome.

You folks out there are way more experienced than I am and I am always keen to hear the views of the experts so any help and comments would be useful.

All the best

David

[Capado]

Well, I consider it as finished. But the Voiles et Voiliers guy did not try to lift the keel, so he has not seen the whole system mounted. That is maybe why.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by daviid

Hi folks

Has anyone had anything to do with Kiriacoulis and more specifically their yacht management program? They offer various schemes that allow you purchase a yacht from an approved yacht list. In exchange for the yacht being used in their yacht charter fleet for the duration of the agreement - 3.5 years or 5.5 years - you are given personal use rights that are season dependent but can add up to our required 12 weeks and they cover all expenses including marina charges and maintenance. At the end of period, the yacht is surveyed before being removed from the charter fleet or alternatively a new deal can be negotaited. In addition, you are able to use a similar yacht at any of their bases in the Mediterranean and Caribbean. The scheme has some attraction for those that will only be able to use their yacht for 3 months a year. The downside is that you are restricted in the choice of boat which brings me to my second question.

The yachts that are available in the 35 to 38 foot range are the following - Jeanneau 36i, Beneteau Oceanis 37 (the First range is not available), Bavaria Cruiser 36, Dufour 375 and believe it or not the Dufour 34e. I have asked Kiriacoulis if they would allow for some level of customisation on the yachts to improve their performance including opting for the performance version of the Jeanneau and upgrading the standard specs to suit performance cruising on the others. I have also enquired whether they would consider a Salona 37 or an Elan 350 but I am afraid not.

We would be using the yacht for coastal cruising and would prefer to have a yacht that gets us from A to B fast We have no intention of racing or entering regattas but who knows.

After looking at all the usual performance and safety ratios, my take is as follows:

Jeanneau 36i - definitely would prefer the perfomance package, like the looks, seem to have a solid reputation for build quality and resale value. Still not sure about the weight (load bearing capability) particularly if we want to do the ARC one day and re-locate the yacht to the Caribbean. Separate shower below decks in 2 cabin version a definite plus for liveaboard. We are chartering one in September in Croatia. Could always wait for that Jeanneau 379

Beneteau 37 - seems to be a good compromise between performance, safety, comfort and price. The polar charts actually show that the yacht is quicker than the Jeanneau 36iP! With a LOA at 11.48, beam at 3.92 and weight at approx 6350 kg, there will be more tankage and load bearing capability than the Jeanneau and the Dufour 34e. Loads of comments in the forums about poor quality finishes and most worrying that the hull is not as good as it should be though.Anyone know the STIX rating?

Bavaria Cruiser 36 - seems to have a hull that is really well built and with the right options could be a quick boat BUT I personally don't like the look that much - yachting monthly have just described it as a bloated whale and scored it 77/100 pts. Also the interior doesn't do it for me. I like contemporary but the Ikea look could get to you eventually. At 7,000 kg's the yacht is the heaviest by far which can't help in light winds. Really good value though. Anyone have the polar chart for this yacht?

Dufour 375 - great looker IMO, seems to be very beamy though and the SA/D at 18.5, although not bad, is quite a bit lower than the others. I have really struggled to find the polar charts for this yacht as well as the STIX and AVS ratings but to no avail, so I don't have the full picture yet. Also it is the most expensive - about 7% more than the Beneteau and the Jeanneau. Polar chart, STiX and AVS would be most welcome

Dufour 34e - Again a great looker (IMO), has a racing pedigree with great comfort thrown in but it also the smallest and lightest and therefore not sure about its cruising capability. With a mast height of 15.1m, it is also possibly a little under sheeted - seems to be confirmed by comments in the forums - unless you opt for a taller rig but this requires a visit to your sailmaker which is not going to work in a yacht management program. I am thinking of chartering this boat for a week in October in Croatia for a first hand experience. Again polar chart, STIX and AVS would be most welcome.

You folks out there are way more experienced than I am and I am always keen to hear the views of the experts so any help and comments would be useful.

All the best

David

Hello David,

Choosing boats is not easy but I would say that I have a soft spot for the Oceanis 37 (that should be substituted soon by a new model) that the Dufour 34 is a nice and fast boat even if smaller, the new Jeanneau 379 looks to be a winner and the Elan 350 and the Salona 37 are great boats, and very fast.

That scheme with Kiriacoulis is offered by most charter companies.

I am not sure if I would like to buy a boat that way. I have charted last year a new Dufour 425 and it really annoyed me to see the "damage" that was already inflicted to the boat in 4 months...and the boat was not even mine. You are going to suffer a lot each time you sail "your" boat and saw the new "marks" he got, unless you are a very detached kind of guy

If you really want to go that way I would compare the prices with the guys in Croatia. I would look at the Croatian importers of Elan, Dufour, First, Jeanneau and ask them their conditions on a similar deal to compare advantages (importers have all charter companies associated).

You can join to the list the Salona 38 that is going to be a revamped 37 (it will be on the water in 2012). With the Salona you are dealing directly with the shipyard and that can have advantages in what regards fixing anything on the boat, or put it in mint condition or as part of the deal get new sails and equipment at factory price when the boat is delivered to you.

Regards

Paulo

[myocean]

Hi Capado!
The FoX boats make a real good impression. I am seeing the 11.60 as a nice, more comfortable alternative to the Pogo 12.50. Very interesting!
Can you let us know how much payload you actually have including crew and what speeds you achieve with that?
Ulf

[PCP]

Ulf,

Probably Adrien is sailing. Send him that question, that I believe interest everybody, to his mail:

capado.creativeboat@gmail.com

Please post the answer

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

New boat:

Let's look at another interesting 38ft, an Italian one. It is not really new (2008), but I like it a lot. I love the looks

The Comet 38s it is fast it's very well made, has a quality interior even if not for all tastes. It has a small defect (not any port hull) and a big one : It is expensive.

The boat has an unusually high ballast/displacement ratio (36%) probably because on its standard version does not have a bulb (can have one as an option).

The boat is really fast and the speed with light wind is great. On the Yacht magazine test they measured with 10k wind:

42șTW - 6.3K ---- 60șTW - 7.2K ---- 90șTW - 7.8K ---- 130ș - 6.9k ---- 180ș - 5.4K

on the Solovela test they measured with with between 10 and 16K (without geenaker) :

30șAW - 7.5K ---- 60șAW - 8.4K ---- 90șAW - 8.1K ---- 120șAW - 6.8K ---- 150AW - 6.5K ----- 180AW - 6.1K

This is boat really excels in upwind performance it is a relatively narrow boat with only 3.73m of beam, light (6400kg) and with a lot of sail (80.6m2).

On Solovela they say about it:

"Fast on the water: Very good response at the wheel, soft and comfortable on the wave passage and very good effectiveness of all sail regulations....it is on the sea that the Comet 38s show its essence: the capacity of transmitting to the wheel man information and emotion...a true thoroughbred"







[IMG][/IMG]

[PCP]

New boat, the Elan 394:

The Ean 394 is going to replace the Elan 384 on the series of more "fat" and more comfortable interior boats from Elan, the ones that are equivalent to the Oceanis Beneteau series or Jeanneau DS series.

The 384 and 434 are around for more than half a dozen years, are designed, as all Elans, by Rob Humphreys and were locked as a slightly more seaworthy alternative to the Oceanis (Beneteau) and Jeanneau Ds line even if in my opinion the overall design of Jeanneau and Benetau is better.

They have changed last year the 434 fot the 444. I saw the boat in Eslovenia and it has so ugly that I don't even posted here the photos I have taken

ELAN Marine - Sail - Sail Yachts

The boat looked puffed and a lot more "fat" than the previous model and I really did not understood their intention. 9 months later they still have the 434 in their catalog side by side with the 444 and that means something regarding public acceptance of the new model.

They are now presenting the 394, the one that is going to replace the 384 and by the first images, it looks a lot better than the 444 in what regards design. After the 444 I will reserve my opinion till I see more of the boat

Here are the first images:





Regards

Paulo