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  #1111  
Old 06-02-2011
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Paulo,

That Southerly is a great boat! Exactly what features are getting our attention up here now.

Your point on the northern lat companies is sure true. We are now finding that companies from Northern Europe and the Pacific NW and Canada are what attracts. The advise to buy for where you will sail consistently, rather than where you will sail occasionally is very good indeed. We will charter when going to warmer waters.

Thanks for the additional boat to dream about.
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  #1112  
Old 06-03-2011
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Last edition of Voile magazine has a comparative test between the Oceanis 50 and the Sense 50, both boats at the water at the same time. It is more than time to post about the new Benetau Sense line . I have been avoiding it because it is just not the kind of boat that I am even remotely interested and because I had not enough data to make an opinion. Now, after reading some boat tests ans after that comparative I think I have.

Why a post? Well, it is an interesting boat that represents a all new concept, a boat that is designed primarily to live aboard (no I don't mean while sailing ) and occasionally sailed.

Let's see what is that knew concept all about: It's about an open plan living saloon, It's about space and the continuity of space between the interior and the outside, it is about an open huge cockpit it is about sailing with 10º of heel and it's about enjoying life and not necessarily enjoying sailing.

For that the boat has an 60Open kind of huge transom, two rudders and no back cabins. These limits the number of cabins but permits an huge cockpit an a big saloon. The two rudders and large transom would make this boat a nightmare to dock, so the invented that Dock and Go system that will make that easy.

This boat was designed to a growing market and is going to be a success. It was designed for the ones that want firstly a good interior, secondly a good deck and third a boat that does not heels much and fourth a boat that can sail, and it makes that very well, taking into consideration that was not a first priority. So let's look at that first priority:


http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...ense_50_s_.swf

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...ense_50-l_.swf





















So have they succeed that interior? Yes no doubt. That's what many people were looking for: The space interior of a cat in a mono-hull, a small luxury loft that can be moved from marina to marina, or for the more extremists, that can be enjoyed in a nice protected anchorage.

And now about sailing? Let me tell you that I end up very disgusted with that comparative test: 17 pages and almost all they can do is describing the boat and show photos of it. People have eyes, they can see the boat in boat shows, what they cannot do is to see how it sails!!!

But maybe after all they are right, sailing is not the priority here.

Regarding to sailing, it is better than what I would expect (and I would say that is the opinion of all the testers on the tests I have read).

On 17 pages they say only about sailing:

On engine:

With the same engine (75hp) the Sense make 7K at 2400rpm and 8.5k at 3400rpm (full throttle). The Oceanis 50 makes at the same rpm : 7.1K and 7.9K.

Sailing:

Close to the wind with 20K wind the Sense goes a bit faster and points less to the wind. They say it has to do with the sails, a 105% genoa on the Sense that they can keep and a bigger genoa on the Oceanis that they have to roll, giving the sail a bad shape. With 18k wind and a better shaped genoa the Oceanis makes almost the same speed as the Sense, points better, can keep a better course and is more agreeable to sail, implying that the Sense is not very agreeable to sail on this sailing position.


With the Geenaker on open courses the boats go at the same speed but they say that the genoa on the Oceanis is not from that boat, just a borrowed one, giving the impression that with an appropriated sail the Oceanis would go faster.

What are the speeds and the angle against the wind...they don't say but they say that the Sense 43 (also tested at the same time) close to the wind has a better performance than the Sense 50 and can point higher. Again they don't tell what is the performance but they say the boat is much more balance at the wheel.

I had to look at another test, this one on the Sense 43 to see what is its performance clolse to the wind, this one on the Magazine Bateau: They say that the Sense 43 with 26K of true wind can make 6.7K at 40º to the wind. Not properly a good performance. Downwind they say the boat is a lot better that can carry all the sail, it is very stable and make 10.5K. That is a good performance for this kind of boat.

On the YachtingWorld test they talk also a lot about the boat interior and little about sailing. They say that the boat is difficult to keep on a groove, that does not like to heel (difficulty in steering) and that in a force 5 to 6 Beufort (+-20K) the boat can make over 7k at 50/55º of the wind.

So it seems that the Sense series does not make a big difference from the Oceanis series in what regards sailing, a bit worse upwind, a bit better downwind. It is a pity all that weight (14 150Kg). With a slimming cure this could be a fast boat downwind. Just to compare, the Cigale 16 (52ft) a bigger boat, (posted recently) weights less 3 150kg. The cigalle has much more finner entries but has a not dissimilar transom. With that weight is not expected to see the Sense planning even if it should be a very stable boat downwind.

It makes however a difference in price. With French taxes (17%) the Oceanis 50 costs 328 800€ and the Sense 50 costs 484 500€.


YouTube - ‪Beneteau Sense 50 video - Yachting World‬‏













Berret Racoupeau Yacht Design - Naval Architect - Bénéteau - Sense 50

Last edited by PCP; 06-03-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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  #1113  
Old 06-03-2011
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Pag 104 post 1035 were posted the first Xp 44 pictures.

Now the first video. Hard to believe but the boat looks even better on the movie

Absolutely beautiful, look at the grin on the face of the guy that it is steering the boat and look how effortlessly the boat does 9K with a bit more than 13K wind. What a boat!!!!!

Performance-Cruiser: Rückbesinnung auf den Sport - YACHT-TV*|*YACHT.DE
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And hard to believe, but X-Yachts hulls will be made in Poland, plus R&D center...

The facility's annual turnover, with its 100% of production destined for export, is estimated to reach EUR60 million (PLN250 million). The facility is situated within the Suwałki Special Economic Zone (the Gołdap subzone). The company, which has already started co-operation with local subcontractors, will invest EUR15 million and the project is expected to generate 80 jobs.

Danish X-Yachts invests in Poland - Website of Trade and Investment Promotion Sections of Polish Embassies

Last edited by G1000; 06-03-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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  #1115  
Old 06-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
And hard to believe, but X-Yachts hulls will be made in Poland, plus R&D center...

The facility's annual turnover, with its 100% of production destined for export, is estimated to reach EUR60 million (PLN250 million). The facility is situated within the Suwałki Special Economic Zone (the Gołdap subzone). The company, which has already started co-operation with local subcontractors, will invest EUR15 million and the project is expected to generate 80 jobs.

Danish X-Yachts invests in Poland - Website of Trade and Investment Promotion Sections of Polish Embassies
That are news to me . But I understand the need. Denmark is one of the most expensive countries in Europe and building a boat there has to be expensive. Let's hope that can bring X-yachts prices down.

Poland is not new to Yacht building and they have been improving quality. They have a good workmanship. One of their brands, perhaps the best known, the Delphia, has released recently a boat that has a place on this thread, the new 47. Competes on the market with Jeanneau, Oceanis and Dufour and the quality is not inferior. It has a better B/D and it is a stiffer boat....and also a very well designed boat.

Take a look:











Regards

Paulo
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  #1116  
Old 06-03-2011
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agreed the Polish yards are rapidly improving their fit and finish quality - will start to give the German & French yards a run in a few years
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  #1117  
Old 06-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Poland is not new to Yacht building and they have been improving quality. They have a good workmanship.
Take a look, first hull was spotted (April 7th) in Klaipeda on a way to ferry and shipped to Denmark XP-44 in Klaipeda. As far as I understood this route will be used to ship to Fredericia, this port just 55 km from home yard. My guess it's Hanse way, most parts will be produced in Poland and then assembled in home yard to claim "made in Denmark". The only problem X-Yachts won't be able to "import" cheap Poles so massively to their yard as Hanse does, Greifswald is just approx. 100km from Polish border. So eventually more X-Yachts parts will be assembled in Poland to cut costs.

Last edited by G1000; 06-04-2011 at 06:57 AM.
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  #1118  
Old 06-04-2011
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Yes, and they are already cutting costs:

the first 10 boats offered for a modest 284 000 EUR free of VAT.

and it is working:

The series production is already well underway and the first nine - of the 23 pre-sold units - are all Expected To Be Delivered to Their Worldwide new owners before the summer holidays in late July.

s/y Piranija » Xp-44 KlaipÄ—doje!

It seems that I am not the only one that likes this boat a lot. 23 boats sold before anyone has saw it is amazing on these difficult days, specially considering that it is not the typical cruiser. It seems that there are an increasing number of sailors looking for performance cruisers. Market is being split in two ways: the ones that want a boat to cruise/race and for the pleasure of sailing and the ones that want mostly a floating home that can sail and be moved around.

Let's see if they can maintain quality. This practice of manufacturing in other European countries it's common policy in the auto market where cars are manufactured a bit everywhere in Europe (components) and then assembled in several different countries. Nobody cares where it is made because quality control is very high everywhere.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1119  
Old 06-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Let's see if they can maintain quality. This practice of manufacturing in other European countries it's common policy in the auto market where cars are manufactured a bit everywhere in Europe (components) and then assembled in several different countries. Nobody cares where it is made because quality control is very high everywhere.
Quality control will be major challenge. One more interesting picture. Could it be one from new factory in Poland? I guess it is, on the first boat hull windows are glued in, on the middle one interior parts are installed. Looks like full assembly line...


Last edited by G1000; 06-04-2011 at 09:26 AM.
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  #1120  
Old 06-05-2011
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Not a lot of info, but how about a new and updated Santa Cruz 52 by Farr!
Farr Yacht Sales-An international yacht brokerage firm for grand-prix, racing and performance cruising sailboats.

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