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  #1121  
Old 06-05-2011
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Yes, looks like a beautiful boat but I think they have some problems producing and selling the boats (Santa Cruz). I have posted about the Santa Cruz 43 way back, before the Xp 44 and I have not yet seen a real boat. The site has no pictures of a boat (only designs) and I cannot find any picture of the boat on the internet. I don't think they have made one

Santa Cruz Yachts - Velocity Matters

On their site they don't talk about the 52 and on the Farr site it is advertised on Farr Yacht Sales?!!! Are Farr advertising a boat plan that can be made by Santa Cruz? Can someone more familiar with this kind of business practices explain this to me? Seems kind of odd.







Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 06-05-2011 at 08:18 PM.
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  #1122  
Old 06-05-2011
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Paulo,

The SC43 From what I have heard, has not been made. Farr may be the designer of the SC52, trying to get SC to build it?!?!? anyway, not sure which is which.....

Then the SC37 has not taken off like they hoped either. Then again, C&C has a 131 design, no takers for 3 yrs. Taten came out with a 4000, which is the C&C121 hull, with a differen keel/deck interior and rigging setup........

Marty
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  #1123  
Old 06-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

...Then again, C&C has a 131 design, no takers for 3 yrs. Taten came out with a 4000, which is the C&C121 hull, with a differen keel/deck interior and rigging setup........

Marty
Hey Marty need your help here. I have been looking at the new Tartan 4000 and I have many doubts.

Let's see if I can understand it rightly: The new Tartan 4000 is going to replace the Tartan 4100, a 1996 Tim Jacket designed boat, and is going to use a 1999 designed hull, also by Tim Jacket?

They advertise in Tartan top of the shelve materials and building techniques:

"The Tartan 4000 design embodies all of the recent Tartan leading technologies and advanced performance cruising conveniences. CCR (Cruise Control Rig), carbon fiber mast, boom and rudder, infused BPA epoxy composite hull and deck, all lead low center of gravity bulb keels give cruising performance advantages that other builders cannot match".

and then offer a 40ft boat that in its more oriented performance version (fin keel) weights 8892 kg when the 1999 C&C 121, that has a good cruising interior, weights 6622Kg? More 2 200Kg over a 12 years old boat, and pretends to be a cruising performance boat? A Jeanneau 409 weights 7450kg!!!!

Looking at the old Tartan 4100 I can see a Classical designed boat that don't pretend to be a performance boat but just a fast modern Classic, a timeless design and a good looking boat to my eyes:









Looking to the new Tartan 4000 I see a boat that looks like a 90's North European performance cruiser (but more beamier):










And amazingly the 12 years older C&C 121 (that has the same hull) looks a lot more modern and nicer to me:









So Marty, give me a help here to understand better the US sailboat market. What is the sailing market that they pretend to target with an expensive boat that they advertise as a performance cruiser, but that is in fact heavy and beamy and looks like a 15 year luxury old boat? Do you think that such market exists?

I would rather have the old Tartan 4100, at least I would have a very nice good looking boat

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 06-06-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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  #1124  
Old 06-06-2011
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Paulo,

Not sure what the thinking i either, other than someone is making MAY mistakes at the company! Shoot, a Catalina is probably better designed etc froma price point, maybe even Hunter, at least neither of them tries to say the boat is NOT what it is not!

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  #1125  
Old 06-06-2011
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First major race for the Dehler 41, The North Sea race, run with stormy weather, strong winds and a lot of upwind sailing. No the Dehler did not win but has made a great race. On IRC1 the winner was a Ker 46, a racing boat, followed by a Salona 42 and the Dehler 41. But as usual I am more interested in real performance than handicapped performance and regarding that the Dehler even beat the older Salona and both boats made a hell of a race. Let me post some results in real time just to be able to compare:

Kerr 46 - 20:10:55

Dehler 41 - 23:48:20

Salona 42 - 23:57:59

Class 40 - 1Day 00:05:48

Class 40 - 1Day 03:20:56

J -133 - 1Day 00:42:42

J 109 - 1Day 03:07:42

J 109 - 1Day 03:22:32

Sidney 39 - 1Day 01:04:03

Dehler 39 - 1Day 04:11:25

Dufour 45e - 1Day 01:51:59

X-43 - 1Day 04:09:27

S&S 41 - 1Day 04:50:01

Swan 44 - 1Day 05:39:07

To give a measure of how good those times are, just compare it with the time of a Swan 42 (racing) - 23:33:47 and with the performance of another recent Swan a 45 (and one of the fastest cruiser-racers around) -23:18:07.

Boats like The Salona 42 (or 41), Dehler 41 or First 40 are the boats to beat on offshore races when things get though and a lot of upwind sailing is requeired

Sailing Results

Take a look at the weather (movie)

North Sea Regatta - 11 May 2010 - Vuurschepenrace on Vimeo

North Sea Race 2011 was heavy test - Delta Lloyd North Sea Regatta

Last edited by PCP; 06-06-2011 at 04:38 PM.
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  #1126  
Old 06-06-2011
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Do classic looks abovethe waterline,but

modern technical under the waterline count ? If so the HOEK boats should be included I would think or at least some of them,maybe.



Fin keel with bulbous ballast....Just a thought
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  #1127  
Old 06-07-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEENONLANDTOOLONG View Post
modern technical under the waterline count ? If so the HOEK boats should be included I would think or at least some of them,maybe.
..
Maybe??? you are mad? of course Hoek designed boats have a place on this thread . By the way welcome and thanks for posting those nice pictures of Braveheart.

I believe that way back on this thread there were posted some Hoek designed boats. Some confusion here regarding the boats that are of interest for this thread. This thread is about interesting sailboats and an interesting sailboat is not necessarily only a modern looking one. Traditional boats, Classics, modern classics have a place here and in what regards modern classics it is difficult to find someone better than Andre Hoek. I find many of his designs absolutely beautiful and I am glad that there are some billionaires with the good taste of preferring something like that instead of one of those monstrous motorboats. At least they use their money to create beauty, beauty that we all can enjoy.

He has created also some modern good looking yachts like this one:





Has some fabulous boats derived from traditional boats, pilot boats in particular:












And many beautiful classical boats, some of them with very modern under-body and deep ballasted bulbed keels:


http://www.hoekdesign.com/images/new...tion-BI-07.pdf






























Hoek Design

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 06-07-2011 at 10:38 AM.
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  #1128  
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Incredible - really nice!
For me please the Lionheart :-)
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  #1129  
Old 06-07-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Maybe??? you are mad?



Regards

Paulo
I have been accused of worse things I promise you.
I did not read through the whole thread so I did not see the HOEK designs before listed.
Thank you for all the links and pictures , they are a beautiful thing to see up close.
If I can talk my wife into it next year we will be at Falmouth Harbor and I will buy a better camera and have a multitude of photos.
J Class Regatta - Falmouth 2012
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  #1130  
Old 06-07-2011
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We will be waiting . The J class are incredible boats. They talk about Volvo's being scary in bad weather. Look at Velsheda going upwind at 11K...and the sea is not that rough Better not slip

YouTube - ‪J Class Yacht in big seas‬‏

Regards

Paulo
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