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  #1181  
Old 06-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbatete View Post
See if im reading this right, this small Elan is a boat thats not so great upwind but can do 16knots at broad reach?? I mean thats almost as fast as a DF 35 for 1/5 less the price. No wonder these pocket rockets are so popular.

My bad about my course. It was called Basic keel boat (not full keel) and yes he said 90 degrees is where its fastest. It was great learning since the boats all manual, no roller nothing (Tanzer 25). He also has a Beneteau 37 as his own boat and when I asked him if he goes offshore with it he looked at me funny and invited me to his advance class in the Virgin Islands. From reading most of the forums, youd think that Benehuntelinas arent capable boats but meanwhile the reality is this guy was looking at me funny like "what are you talking about"? Hes going to Bermuda next year with it.

And this got me back into this thread where I see people are doubting that some of these half million dollar boats you posted may be problems in the open ocean yet an older Beneteau 37 goes to Bermuda no problem.
Mikewhy has explained the speed issue well. That's about it even if not to close to the wind is possible to pass slightly hull speed in a fast boat. On that one at 70º of true wind, about 45/50º apparent wind, the boat with 13/14k is making 8K and that's 1K over hull speed.

Regarding the Oceanis 37 that's a great sailing boat. Look in the thread, there are posts about it.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1182  
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I would think that's more like 5000 years, than 50 years.

The answer is in your own question. A perfect implementation for all needs has no room or need for compromises. We can only build adequate vessels for some range of intended use. The only example that comes to mind of an industry that managed to escape this shackle is electronics and semiconductors. Semiconductors are unique in so many ways, the least of which is essentially unlimited, at least from a 1950's point of view, possibilities, at next to zero cost per unit.

If I were to design a perfect ocean-going vessel, I think it would end up looking and acting more like an albatross, than clumsy fiberglass hulks with inefficient cloth foils.

But, you're right. We're way off topic, with no way of getting back on track.
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  #1183  
Old 06-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWhy View Post
I would think that's more like 5000 years, than 50 years.

The answer is in your own question. A perfect implementation for all needs has no room or need for compromises. We can only build adequate vessels for some range of intended use. The only example that comes to mind of an industry that managed to escape this shackle is electronics and semiconductors. Semiconductors are unique in so many ways, the least of which is essentially unlimited, at least from a 1950's point of view, possibilities, at next to zero cost per unit.

If I were to design a perfect ocean-going vessel, I think it would end up looking and acting more like an albatross, than clumsy fiberglass hulks with inefficient cloth foils.

But, you're right. We're way off topic, with no way of getting back on track.

You mean like this Shannon 38. They have high tea in the cockpit in big seas

YouTube - ‪Heavy Weather Sailing- Shannon 38‬‏

Anyway heres a nice compromise. Fast and relatively heavy rugged cruiser. Its expensive.

Saare 41



Beautiful interior

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  #1184  
Old 06-21-2011
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Yes, I fully agree, that's a very nice boat, one of the best looking if not the best looking 40ft center cockpit. An that's not only good looking as it has a very good polar speed and outstanding stability curve. A true passagemaker.

This one is not only better looking than the HR 40 as it is faster. About the same weight but more sail, including a huge geenaker with 120m2. Nice








They are making a new 38ft that I find even more interesting. It is not a center cockpit (a 38ft center cockpit will look necessarily ugly and heavy) but a very nice looking boat. The numbers seem alright and should be a great boat, a true competitor for the xc38, also an outstanding boat, kind of ideal passage-maker for the solo sailor, a very seaworthy boat.








If I would want to be picky I would say that this boat should not have a teak interior as option, should only be made in teak and mainly that those port hulls should be bigger because with that size you don't get a view. On X yachts they have understood that and the new Xp come with bigger port hulls in the salon and I believe they will make them bigger also on the Xc line.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1185  
Old 06-21-2011
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What do you think about this day sailor? It has its focus on sailing inland waters, however looks great, doesn't it? I just passed the shipyard today.
Just don't look at the prices....

Length overall: 9,99m
Waterline length: 9,40m
Max beam: 2.55m
Draft reductable to 1.70 (lifting) 2,10m
Displacement: 2.100kg
Bulb: 990kg
Engine: Yamaha Saildrive 15 HP
Fuel tank: 22 litres

TOTAL SAIL AREA
Total sail area up wind 67 m²
Genoa 24m²
Mainsail 43m²
Gennaker 134m²

CONSTRUCTION MATERIAL
Hull and deck glass sandwich, Infusion epoxy resin.

Technical specifications Esse990
Attached Thumbnails
Interesting Sailboats-esse990.jpg  

Last edited by myocean; 06-21-2011 at 06:27 AM.
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  #1186  
Old 06-21-2011
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The Esse are famous boats in the Alps. They use them on the beautiful Alp lakes and they are a lot of fun to sail. Fast boats and beautiful boats.



The Esse 850 was European boat of the year in 2005. They have them in nice finish, just for the pleasure of sailing with the family and in racing configuration (woods out ) for racing in very popular series. A great boat in any of its configurations (750, 850, 990).

This is the boat program:

After many years experience in dealing with sailing boats, particularly sports/racers of 8 to 10 metres overall length, I have felt for two years that there is a need in the market for a boat that above all is easy to handle. That means not only a boat that is easy to trailer but above all is simple to handle in its element - on the water; where simple handling means not only the ability to be sailed single-handed, but also the advantage of regatta sailing without the need to recruit a large crew, and nevertheless still be faster than most boats of similar size.

Willkommen bei den esse boats

Talking about sailing fun :

YouTube - ‪High Speed Esse 850‬‏

YouTube - ‪Trucciolo d'Oro SUI079‬‏



Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 06-21-2011 at 07:22 AM.
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  #1187  
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Heres a boat maker thats picking up steam and of all places from my hometown of NYC.

e sailing yachts

Makers of no frills but quality daysailers such as the e33. Best value of all the daysailers in the States at least. They blew everyone in comparative analysis see their website.





and now they're coming out with this:
The E44 ..this company is what America need to compete.




Thats a party cockpit right there
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  #1188  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
After many years experience in dealing with sailing boats, particularly sports/racers of 8 to 10 metres overall length, I have felt for two years that there is a need in the market for a boat that above all is easy to handle. That means not only a boat that is easy to trailer but above all is simple to handle in its element - on the water; where simple handling means not only the ability to be sailed single-handed, but also the advantage of regatta sailing without the need to recruit a large crew, and nevertheless still be faster than most boats of similar size.

[Regards

Paulo
Is this your quote? Ive always wondered, who would allow so many people on their expensive boats but super rich guys who has multiple boats? Id rather have push button sailing than have 20 guys use the head of my boat. I never saw the positive of 20 guys in a boat for casual fun racing. Also boats/racing shouldnt be so tiring, because here they race 5 times a day and it takes the fun out since its exhausting especially if you come in last.

I'll take a DF35 with another guy and blow everyone out of the water
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Last edited by Chimbatete; 06-21-2011 at 10:12 AM.
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  #1189  
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No, not my quote. I am quoting the owner of Esse yachts.

But let me get back to the boat you posted. The e-sailing yachts. Yes the 24 is nice boat and if it is affordable and a fast boat, as you say, should be a very interesting boat but I confess that my attention went to the 44. A very interesting boat not only because goes out of the trends (narrow) but also because it seems to be a very fast boat, a fast classic, I like it :



6804k kg for 104m2 of sail upwind and 186m2 downwind is very good, but narrow as it is (3.81m) this boat is going to be a creamer specially if we consider that 47% of the boat weight is ballast, at 2.44m in a bulb. How, this is going to be a stiff boat. I want to sail this one

Pity the boat has a relatively small LWL, but of course, that has to do with its classic design.





But the surprises are many. The mast is a carbon unstayed mast with back spreaders and that permits a huge mainsail with a square top. A solution we can find also in the Pogo 12.50 a completely different boat.





That mainsail goes with a 100% jib on a auto traveller. It seems the boat will not be able to carry a Genoa (they don't have a track for it) and that will pass frob jib directly for a geenaker for downwind sailing.

The boat only has two winches, the main working directly with a purchase system and they are in a very unusual position. Well, the guy that designed the running rigging is a very good sailor and the system should work, but I am very curious about it.



Probably the front sail only has a line, plus the lines for reffing the boat, all seems to come from that hole near the winch but from where will come the Geenaker line? I confess that I am intrigued with that.

If the system works well not only the boat will be very easy to solo sail as the front and bigger part of the cockpit will be free from lines, a true passengers cockpit



The two wells seem a beat out of place to me. Yes, probably he wanted to give a perfect passage to the "passengers cockpit" and also has the advantage of allowing a big storage space under the cockpit deck but it looks like it don't belongs there.

The interior is what we should expect from a narrow boat, I would say that even so it could be better. The space for a Genset not only does not permit a bigger storage space on the cockpit as, making the space for the engine unnecessarily wide, it only permits very small back cabins. I would have modified that and also the choice of the mahogany as interior wood. This boat deserved teak and its clear color wood be a blessing in a boat that has not a very luminous interior.








The double door for the front cabin is a very nice touch that permits an open space and the sensation of space but only can exist with the two cabin boat and as one is half a cabin...it gets really small.

I say, take away the genset, tight the space for the engine and take all the space won to a cabin putting the engine a little off center. That way we would have a big back cabin, an open space and a smaller storage space. That is a good trade for a genset that many will not want anyway.

It is a pity that these one is made in the USA. I don't think it is going to be a hit and I doubt he survives. This boat would probably be very well welcomed in the North Europe where they love fast sailing and classical boats.

This boat remembers me of another nice boat, a smaller one, the Mystery 35, a British boat:

Mystery 35's Photostream

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 06-21-2011 at 12:54 PM.
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  #1190  
Old 06-21-2011
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That e44 sure has numbers of a high performance boat. The boat weight minus ballast is 3629 kg; compare that to say a Jeanneau 409 at 5109 kg. They have certainly made an effort to minimize on weight and I don’t think it’s all in the narrow beam. They don’t say much on their web site but maybe composite furniture (good for 400kg), epoxy instead of polyester (good 200Kg), Awlgrip or similar instead of gelcoat (good for 200Kg). Then again I suppose they save a few kg by having only two winches.
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