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  #111  
Old 08-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That's a good looking boat. It was a steel one?

I don't think Judel-Vrolijk is a worst Cabinet than Van de Stadt. Just compare both portfolios.

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Van de Stadt Design

Regards

Paulo
Yep she is steel. That one is lifted from the VDS website. Tiller steered and fractional rig. Ours has a wheel and masthead rig. If I had my way I'd go tiller/fractional but thats not a big issue. The reality is that at 34' steel is a poor choice of material. We are significantly heavier than the coldmoulded or GRP versions yet carry less weight in the keel. The VDS34 was a good little boat in her time. To be frank we often sit onboard and think that if we could blow her up to 40' she would be perfect. That's being sentimental of course. Despite the shortcomings I think we all love our boats. I hate the idea of selling her even though we know we will have to do so in the not too distant future. She has treated us very well indeed.

Which is partly why I said that I wish the DS41 was a Van de Stadt. We'd both be happy to own another one. It was no criticism of Judel-Vroljik who are very fine designers indeed.

ps - we went to the Sydney Boat Show yesterday. I'll post something about that later on today.
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  #112  
Old 08-02-2010
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Yes, steel is not a good choice for a small boat. It makes the boat too heavy. They put less ballast but the final stability is worst than in the same boat made of fiberglass (with more ballast on the keel).

However there is a thing that you are going to miss and that is boat motion. As a lot of the weight is distributed by the hull, that gives a sweet motion to a steel boat.

I am waiting for that report, and photos if you have.

Regards, and good night. I am going to bed (1.15 AM) .

Paulo
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  #113  
Old 08-02-2010
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Yes, steel is not a good choice for a small boat. It makes the boat too heavy. They put less ballast but the final stability is worst than in the same boat made of fiberglass (with more ballast on the keel).

However there is a thing that you are going to miss and that is boat motion. As a lot of the weight is distributed by the hull, that gives a sweet motion to a steel boat.

I am waiting for that report, and photos if you have.

Regards, and good night. I am going to bed (1.15 AM) .

Paulo
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  #114  
Old 08-02-2010
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No boat comments today from me, just spent about 6 hrs in an ER, thinking I had appendicitis, Looks like it might be more like an ulcer type issue! Not sure I am liking the ulcer type issue personally....

Anyway, Paulo, I did see you point out, and feel the wt of the B36 seemed high. Not sure I want one that heavy for the length etc. I know I would like to get a SA/disp in the 22to 26-1 range, for the light airs I have around here, easy to reef etc in my mind, hard to get more SA when it is 1-5 knots of wind one is dealing with!

Over here any way, The J's, Ben's, bav's and Hanse are in the same ballbark. altho with Jeanneau now building in SC where beneteau builds boats ont he east coast, the 36i is about US&15K less than one built in France. Now if they would do the same thing with the 3200, which I doubt they will for many many reasons.

Time to go rest some more, maybe go to sleep myself, abut 7:40PM here.

Marty
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  #115  
Old 08-03-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Hello Together!

I am following your discussion with great interest! There are some great
designs around and I am thinking about what ship I prefer for a long
term trip with family which should start in 3 years latest. Pogo 12.50
is one of my favorites (even though difficult to finance)
I have made a 1200 miles non-stop Pogo 40 trip and found it very
exciting - however quite bumpy.
I just got the message that the first Pogo 12.50 prototype will get
tested mid of this month...

There have been some interesting questions in this discussions. One is
about the tillers and I like to know what you think about the fact, that
Pogo 12.50 seems to come with a single tiller. I fear this might be a
major disadvantage.

SeanRW asked some interesting questions as well. I can say something
regarding this:
Provision for anchoring is no problem for the bigger Pogo's. A chain is
ok and e.g. the new Pogo 12.50 is offered with electric windlass as an
option.
A bimini is available as well for this boats, however I would be curious
how it looks like.
For Pogo 12.50 the (short term) storage for a dinghy should be the rear
end of the VERY spacious cockpit

Another question mentioned here is about the missing thermal insulation
for the very light boats. Does somebody have experience with this in
very hot regions? (In cold weather you just get condensation
everywhere...)

Regards,
Ulf
Gulp....I can have an all chain rode on the primary anchor AND a windlass ?
I can have a dodger/bimini of some sort ? (praying it's not f-ugly)
Dinghy can be stored deflated if need be.

I love this boat !!!

SRW

(now where'd I hide my chequebook ?)
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  #116  
Old 08-03-2010
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Sydney Boat Show

...grumble grumble grumble.....bloody technology....

Not sure what is going on but having problems with card from camera.

Anywho...we went to the show on Monday. Spent a goodly amount of time wandering about looking into this and that. Here's a short account...minus pics. (I've included some lifted off the web.)

Any criticism of any of these boats is based on their newness and their cost. Even the ones I damn are in all probablity better than what I have now but then they are also a damn site more expensive.

Reality is that the SBS is a minor event in the international boat show calendar. Though I've never had the chance to visit the biggies (London, Southampton, Genoa, Dusseldorf, Barcelona ????) Sydney gets half the number of visitors as London, really only the big guys display and even then often a very small selection of boats. Total around 200 exhibitors but many of these were small stands selling gear, accessories and the like. Sadly no Swans or their ilk and of course none of the boutique European brands that we've been drooling over in this thread. I guess the top of the line sailing boats on display would have been Moody, X, Hallberg Rassey and of course the usual suspects, Beneteau, Juneau, Elan etc etc.

For us it was a good show. We spent a fair amount of time sussing out bits and pieces of hardware that are not sold at the bigger chandleries but thats not of any interest to you lot.

We had a good look at a number of boats, some gobsmacking, some disappointing. The Hanse 545 by Judel-Vroljik was a star. OK so not my cup of tea overall, but the scale of thing made it a standout. From the outside very impressive, indeed I did like the design. Interior, we've discussed this before, too much like a modern apartment though admittedly not quite as Ikea as some of the others. In its own way you have to give the designers credit for this one. What about those flush hatches ? Not unique to Hanse of course, but very impressive.




Elan - Sadly no 350. Too new to have made it downunder as yet. Shame. Had a good look at a 384. Yes I could live with one of these but it would never be my pride and joy, ultimately a bit too plastic. The thing appears well built though the joinery could have been better. Fabulous layout on deck, good cockpit, quite comfortable down below. I was quite surprised by how non claustrophobic was the aft cabin. I could be content with this though I do prefer to sleep up front. The 384 is designed by Rod Humphries, better known to me as the designer of the British Southerlys, a boat I have always liked.

Bluewater Yachts - An Australian builder of exceptionally high quality low output serious cruising yachts. I've been a fan of Bluewater owner David Bradburn since I first went on board one of his boats six or seven years ago. Currently offering a 40'er (BW420) design by legendary Australian designer Joe Adams, a Ron Holland designed 45'er and a 52'er designed by Bruce Farr, as yet none built. They only had the 40 on display and it was in fact an older boat that they had recently refurbished. I won't harp on about deck saloons, so lets presume for the moment that I am not obsessed with them, OK ? The BW 420 I could take home tomorrow. We did in fact go close to making an offer on one in 2008 but the price was too high and they would not negotiate. She did in fact sell for full asking. Not going to be the fastest boat in the world but rock solid and would make a marvelous cruising home. Every aspect of this boat screams quality even though I am not convinced by the design of the hard dodger. Admittedly it looks better in real life than on paper. You could buy a second hand BW for about the same price as a new Elan 384. No contest as far as I'm concerned.

Bluewater Cruising Yachts | Home Page





Dehler - It was for me wonderful to sit down in a Dehler and have a good look around. They only had two boats on display, a new series 32 and one of the older line the 45. Now I have to say that the 32 did not move me. I'm not overly impressed with this current trend towards what I think of as 'bubble boats'. Talk about frozen snot. I'd much rather the angular lines of say a Hanse 545 than the Dehler 32. OTOH, the 45 was the second boat at this show that I could have put under my arm and carried off home. Just superb. Build quality could not be faulted from what I saw. Sensible interior layout, nice cockpit and well laid out deck. If my dreamboat DS41 is as well built as the 45....I am happy. Only three DS41s ever made it to Australia btw. I'd always presumed that we would have to import one but the Dehler rep reckons there is one about to come onto the Oz market in Oz. If he is correct we'll be very interested I'm sure. Depending of course on the price.

Bavaria.....I will be very interested to see that new Farr design when it appears. I confess I have always found Bavarias to be handsome boats let down by the interior. I realise they are built to a price and I suppose I'd still rather one of these than a Beneteau or a Juneau but the joinery disappoints me.

Beneteau....had a wander through an Oceanis 40....leaves me totally unmoved.

Juneau.....as above for a DS40. Not that they are awful, just bland as bland can be. Very disappointing. I used to really like the old model Juneau Deck Saloons and sure the 50 plus footers are pretty impressive but no, not my speed.

Catalina....gee I hope Cruising Dad doesn't see this cos he has been extolling the praises of the Catalina but I'm afraid....see above. Maybe the odler ones are better than the newer. Even the hatches into the bilges were jammed on this thing.

To be honest from what I saw, the Elan was a better build than Beneteau. Juneau or Catalina. While I do still find the Elan too plastic, it would be the pick for me of the less expensive production yachts.

Salona....new , very new, to the Australian market and I really wanted to have a look see but there were too many people crawling around when we went past and I am embarassed to admit we forgot to go back. We'll have to speak with the dealer and go have a look post show.

Moody....way out of my price league....but I've always liked Moodys. The old 425 is an old favourite. That whacko Pilot House I love, if only because it is out there while the new Classic looks a pretty fine piece of kit, little bit too "olde newe" for my liking but I suspect that this is a boat that will age well.

That's probably about it as far as the stuff we were interested in. I should have taken notes I guess but there were some lovely small daysailers on display and a vertiable horde of stink boats both large and small, almost all without exception being loathsome. I'm not really anti stink boats as such. Indeed I well admit that the day will come when I will go that way once I can no longer handle a sailing boat. For me, I'd rather be on the water in a stinker than not on the water at all. That said the current generation of frozen snot surrounded by a myriad of those vile underwater led lights just makes me want to .

Nuff said.

Oh...didn't mention multi hulls. Had a quick look at a Lagoon and an Australian built Seawind. Reality is the Wombet simply refuses to discuss the things. I can see they have appeal but she just hates them. Waste of time spending much time investigating but I really did like one little trimaran with folding wings. I forget the name right now and the info is at home. Only about 20' long but as a day sailor, occasional stay on board she would be terrific.

Rest of the time was spent looking at gear. I'll spare you the details.

Cheers
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  #117  
Old 08-03-2010
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Thanks for the run down TDW, very nice.

Maybe a new thread about new gear you saw down there would be appreciated by us blokes up here...
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  #118  
Old 08-03-2010
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Hey Man, great post

I agree with almost everything you have said even If I find those "Bluewater cruising yachts" pretty dated in what concerns design.

The cruising line of Elans are really too fat. You mean they had not any of the performance line there? The Elan 380 and the 410 are really nice boats, with very nice interiors. No fat ladies, but athletic gals with a nice and accommodating body, if you know what I mean

No Benetaus First? The 45 and the 50 are beautiful boats with a great interior.

I agree about the big Dehler: what a boat...and what a price

What Salona was there? You know the Salona is better appreciated on the water. It is a very good sailboat. This month I am going to visit the shipyard and have a look at the first Salona 41. Finished, but not yet out of the factory

I agree that the big Hanse are just beautiful. Perhaps they have improved the interior, as you say. As I have said on a previous post, they are just changing their design concept, and for the better.

About the trimaran, would that not be a Dragonfly? I love those boats and if the 35ft was not sooooo expensive I would just buy one and live in a very frugal way...just to have the pleasure to cruise at 20k.

About the European boat shows, there are Dusseldorf and Paris...forget about the others

Why don't you come to Paris, to the next one? I am going and there are worst cities to visit than Paris . I am sure that your wife would love it (I mean, not the boat show, the city ).

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 08-03-2010 at 09:22 PM.
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  #119  
Old 08-03-2010
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Thanks for the run down TDW, very nice.

Maybe a new thread about new gear you saw down there would be appreciated by us blokes up here...
Thank you.

I doubt there would be anything you guys are not already aware of. Usually I am chasing around at boat shows trying to find stuff I've seen mentioned here that I've not found in Oz.

Our main interest was in Auto Pilots....Raymarine won out I think, Inflatable...need a cheap one not top of the range, liked Plastimo for the price. Also looking at LED nav lights, Lopo seem pretty good, log (Raymarine again) and LED interior lighting.

Actually, I suppose the only chance we would have something that is not commonly available in the US would be if it was European.
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  #120  
Old 08-03-2010
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Paulo,

I would go to Paris for the boat show. spouse on other hand,,,,,,I'll be at the boat show alone, she'll be wondering the town, or very little timeover all at the boat show, more than I would hope elsewhere! One of these years, if nothing else, to say "I was there!"

Nice to hear about the Elans. May have to check into those a bit more, and maybe the Hanse. I have a price list for the most recent now old generation of the 32/35. They were not what I would call out of line cost wise.

Marty
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