Interesting Sailboats

[PCP]

I have posted about this boat on another thread, but the truth is that I think that he deserves to be also on this one, as an interesting boat




This is a Luffe 43Ds and was for severall years my dream boat. It is not anymore becausen I refuse to have dreams that cannot be true, one day.

Before the crisis I thought that eventually I could have the means to buy one, so I have visited the shipyard, talked with the owner. They were building one, but they had not one available for test sailing, so I test sailed another luffe (the boat sailed wonderfully).



I liked everything, the boat, the shipyard, Oluf Jørgensen and the love of perfection that they put in all their work.

I don’t even think that the boat is expensive, if we compare it with for instance X-Yachts. And I say X yachts, because they are both Danish boats( the Luffe has a local nick name: X-eater ) .

The Luffe are very fast cruiser racers, the owner of the shipyard is a racer that 30 years ago made its own racing boat (a 37) . He made Wood Dragons at that time. The boat was so good that he started to build cruiser racers, first for friends then for a small market. He still races and have its own Luffe

Here you can see Oluf Jorgensen racing one of its boats on a major Nordic race (how many owners and designers of sailboats are active racers, or sailors?)

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMlJero9NZ0&feature=related"]

The 43Ds was borne by the desire that an old client (and an old sailor) had to travel extensively. This old racer wanted to travel, but have no desire to sail a slow or boring boat and asked Oluf Jorgensen to adapt a 43 cruiser-racer for extensive bluewater cruising, easy anf fast sailing and the result was that boat.




The 43Ds can be equipped with a self-taking front sail and, as the one on the picture and a top class Danish furler boom. The boat has at least an electric winch (for the furler boom). The boat is light, but strong, with an interior steel frame that support and distribute the rig and keel loads.



Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by SeanRW

Paulo,

I agree that the POGO; or any of the other racers mentioned; would be a different approach to sailing and cruising. The ride itself would definitely fall into the Ferrari category. Fast, bumpy, exhilarating and I suspect very wet as opposed to the more sedate heavier displacement vessels we're more familiar with. And yes, like you, I think I am somewhat mad for even considering something like a POGO as a possible alternative to a more traditional cruising vessel. Obviously there would be compromises to endure but I'm beginning to think that they may be worth it. Plus, the prices advertised make them all the more attractive.

Well, welcome to the club There are several mad ones on this thread

I just did not want to misguide you. You should start to test sail these boats, just to see what we are talking about and the diferences between them. I am in the process of doing that.

I have recentely sailed an Opium 39(great sailing) and next moth I will probably sail an Elan 380 or a 410. I want also to try the First 40 and, of course, the Pogo and I have an eye at the new Salona.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by nemier

Gents,
twin wheel, single wheel, or tiller...what does your next boat need?
I love a tiller on a largish boat (37' - 44')
I saw a few last season in the San Juan's, most likely custom built composite jobbies, but real easy on the eye...

The wheel has substituted the tiller on relatively small and light boats for comercial reasons. Consumers associate a wheel with a big boat and they want to have a boat that looks like a big boat

The tiller is simpler, cheaper, more direct and give you a better boat feeling.

Many of the boats on this thread, specially the sporty ones made by small shipyards, come originally with a tiller, and the wheel comes as an (expensive) option. They ended up selling more boats with a wheel than with a rudder.

For example, the Luffe 43, The Opium 39, the JPK and even the fast cruiser RM1200, all come originally with a tiller. The wheel is an option.

On the Opium 39, the running rigging makes not much sense (position of the winches) if you have a wheel. They are too much forward to be reached from the wheel (and this boat is originally designed as a solo boat). But that position makes sense with a tiller, cause the steering position is a lot more forward than the one on the wheel.

Regards

Paulo

[nemier]

My preference is a tiller. If my next vessel is sold with a wheel, I'll consider the expense of converting to a tiller, such is the strength of my desire for a tiller. However, the twin wheels are a different breed altogether, and this appeals to me. Therefore my personal preference is:
1. tiller
2. twin wheel
3. single wheel, (& as Cesar Milan says)...in that order.
(everybody) What's Your personal preference)?

[tdw]

Originally Posted by tdw

Paulo...sorry about the spelling....payback for calling me a cat.......I was actually going to ask you how come a Portuguese ended up with an Italian name......whoops.....Paulo it is.

Man that Luffe is one sexy beast. It really is a DS41, lengthened, updated and with what looks like absolutely awesome build quality. Nice to see the top loading (as well as front) refrigeration. American DS41s usually have a top loader but not the European. Galley layout on the Luffe is revised, they have done away with that silly controller at the chart table and ditched the odd anchor stowage. All for the good. Not sure about that stool at the bottom of the companionway but that is pretty simple to resolve and a very minor issue.

Show me where to sign.

Ah if only.

I have no idea what the Luffe would be worth but I suspect more than I am. There are none available used on Yachtworld.

I reckon I would still be happy with a Dehler but yes the Luffe does go one better and on the basis of the web site it has gone straight to number one on the Wombat list of desirable holes in the water.

Thanks for the links....I think....then again maybe I was better off when I didn't know this thing existed.....

This was my reply to Paulo re the Luffe 43.

I'm with Paulo on this one....I'd love this baby to be my dream angel but reality is I am never going to be able to afford even a used one. For that reason I am staying faithful to my smaller less expensive piece of fluff...the Dehler DS41. Older, slower, smaller but at least she comes close to my budget.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by nemier

My preference is a tiller. If my next vessel is sold with a wheel, I'll consider the expense of converting to a tiller, such is the strength of my desire for a tiller. However, the twin wheels are a different breed altogether, and this appeals to me. Therefore my personal preference is:
1. tiller
2. twin wheel
3. single wheel, (& as Cesar Milan says)...in that order.
(everybody) What's Your personal preference)?

I used to be a single wheeler but now not overly concerned which way I go. I've sailed the VDS34 in both tiller and wheel variations and if I had my choice there, I'd go tiller (and also fractional rather than masthead rig, which is another discussion altogether). However the choice to go tiller would be more to do with freeing up space in the quarter berth which on the Womboat is cluttered up with steering gear.

Twin wheels are cool. The only boat with twins I've ever sailed was Giulietta. Certainly preferable to one big wheel I reckon.

As an aside.....Sailing on Giulietta was a lot of fun and the fastest keel boat I've ever sailed on but I'd not choose such a design as my long term cruiser. Paulo spoke about driving a Ferrari v a Volvo....as long as the Volvo is a new one and not like the old 245 I had once , yes I agree..... Then again even the 245 was pretty good on the open road, just a bit sluggish around town. To be frank crossing oceans at 15 plus knots does not have all that much appeal if only because should you hit something at that speed something is going to get very badly damaged. As a day sailor maybe its a different story.

ps (edit)....Absurdly expensive even when compared to the Luffe but i've always felt these things were pretty cool.....

2008 K&M Yachtbuilders Bestewind Bestewind 50 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com



(thats big sister btw...Bestevaer 53)

and can anyone identify this ?

[blt2ski]

I've seen that blue one somewhere, now need to figure it out........hmmmmmmm........not my style of boat, would prefer a 35' Giulietta of some sort.......but where I day sail/race and cruise......works fine! slower would not be good, especially tonight, winds are maybe 5 knots........old shoes are not good in puget sound with 2-4 knot currents, some places less, some pass's upwards of 6-8, some up in the BC aka Fasters relm, in the mid teens, you have 20 min 4 times a day to go thru them cuts! Faster is better around here!

[PCP]

Originally Posted by nemier

My preference is a tiller. If my next vessel is sold with a wheel, I'll consider the expense of converting to a tiller, such is the strength of my desire for a tiller. However, the twin wheels are a different breed altogether, and this appeals to me. Therefore my personal preference is:
1. tiller
2. twin wheel
3. single wheel, (& as Cesar Milan says)...in that order.
(everybody) What's Your personal preference)?

Twin wheels from a mechanical point of view are more complicated than a single wheel. More cables, more drag, less sensitivity. What I want is twin rudders (on a large transom boat), not twin wheels. I want them by lots of reasons that have to do with efficiency and safety, but that is another story.

Regarding the wheel versus tiller. Tiller wins on simplicity, price and sensability. The wheel provides you with something you can hold on bad weather and gives you some support when the boat is going up and down on big waves. The choice, as Tdw as pointed out as to do also with the free space on the cockpit and with the rigging. A tiller permits you to reach farther, but takes away free space on the cockpit.

The reason that lead to twin wheels as to do with the transom increase in size. Modern boats have broader transom and beyond a certain width you can not sit on the side and reach the wheel, even if it is a big one (not to mention the ability to reach the winch with a hand on the wheel).

The size that justifies two wheels depends on the transom width, but it is around 40ft.

On boats with relatively narrow beams and transom (for modern design) you can still have one wheel (First 40, Elan 410) but on boats with large transom that would be impossible (Pogo 12.50, Opium 39).

Twin wheels have became a "fashion" and lots of boats that don't need twin wheels (smaller boats) now offer them as standard items (for comercial purposes). It is true that in what concerns access to the cockpit, a twin whell offers advantages, but that as nothing to do with efficiency and it is only understandable in an oriented cruising boat, not in a performance one.

Besides the efficiency problem you will have another problem with the localization of boat's instruments. Some brands just double everything, from the compass to the wind, speed and depth instruments. More expense and more complication.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by tdw

and can anyone identify this ?

That's a Zeydon 60.

Zeydon

With that price tag there is boats that I like more.
Dreaming has no price , so when I have time I will post about them.

Take a look at this one. It will be probably affordable for a guy that has the money for a 50ft. It is a new "luxury" line by Benetau. The hull seems modern and the boat will be faster than the Oceanis. The interior is European "chick". It is well designed, but I don't like it. I like boat's interiors to look like boat's interiors, not like some small luxury apartment

Take a look at the video:

http://sense.beneteau.com/defaultProduit.aspx

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by tdw

..
ps (edit)....Absurdly expensive even when compared to the Luffe but i've always felt these things were pretty cool.....

2008 K&M Yachtbuilders Bestewind Bestewind 50 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com



(thats big sister btw...Bestevaer 53)

Those are Gerard Dykstra designs. I love it. You know, the Bestevaer 53 looks old beautiful , expensive, heavy with a long keel and slow but that's a false image.

The only thing that remains true from that image is that it is beautiful and expensive . But It is also fast, light (aluminum) and has a modern underbody with a finn keel and a bulb.

From its designs I prefer the classical ones, with a proper boat interior, not some fancy luxury apartment imitation.

Look at this 50ft. I bet I can sail it solo and if you waste a lot of money in a boat, better travel with style, and style is a thing that this one has.

K&M Yachtbuilders

And if I was really rich and have a a big family that could crew the boat, then it will be this one. Look at the interior: That's what an interior of a boat should look like

http://www.kmy.nl/aluminium-sailing-yachts.php?page=km_jachten_bestevaer_11

Regards

Paulo