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  #1191  
Old 06-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It is a pity that these one is made in the USA. I don't think it is going to be a hit and I doubt he survives. This boat would probably be very well welcomed in the North Europe where they love fast sailing and classical boats.

This boat remembers me of another nice boat, a smaller one, the Mystery 35, a British boat:

Mystery 35's Photostream

Regards

Paulo
wed' take a Tayana over this. It does look like the Mystery but Mystery is built by those who build Crabbers so that one is molasses slow.

Man that Saare is good looking.

Paulo so far, Saare 41, Finnflyer 42 right at the top had Cigale been a glass boat that could be the greatest of all.
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  #1192  
Old 06-21-2011
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Do all center cockpits have the same steering gear issues as the Saare 41? It looks like the only access for an emergency tiller is under the berth in the aft cabin.
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  #1193  
Old 06-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbatete View Post
wed' take a Tayana over this. It does look like the Mystery but Mystery is built by those who build Crabbers so that one is molasses slow.
Has Stephen Jones ever designed a slow boat??
I wouldn't knock the Mystery 35. From what I've been reading it should out-point most boats in its size. I know, most of you sail downwind, so not a great feature.
I would prefer this boat over most estonian, slovenian, polish or croatian yachts most of you guys drool over....
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  #1194  
Old 06-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
Has Stephen Jones ever designed a slow boat??
I wouldn't knock the Mystery 35. From what I've been reading it should out-point most boats in its size. I know, most of you sail downwind, so not a great feature.
I would prefer this boat over most estonian, slovenian, polish or croatian yachts most of you guys drool over....
Not sure but when I was looking at these Cornish crabbers they were the slowest boats on the planet and they were the same company that made the mystery yachts. I agree about character boats as compared to these fast ones in eastern europe. I wonder how these racers cruisers from eastern europe holds up in 10 years. The attractive thing about some of these boats are the price points. The Elan 210 for example something new and fast that you can take home for $40-50k brand new.

I just joined Sailnet but theres such a divide between which boats are better. Me, I dream of a heavy disp boat for cruisng off shore down the carribean but I also love these Scandinavian boats for Lake use esp the Dragonfly tris. If they can make an updated DF1200 like Paulo said it would be the GOAT boat.

But as for another interesting sailboats I think we should include Fantasi Yachts. They make the best pilot house boats IMHO and is the best of all the Swedish Boatbuilders whilst very exclusive.

Fantasi 44










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  #1195  
Old 06-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbatete View Post
...
But as for another interesting sailboats I think we should include Fantasi Yachts. They make the best pilot house boats IMHO and is the best of all the Swedish Boatbuilders whilst very exclusive.

Fantasi 44
.....
Yes, the Fantasi 44 DS is a very beautiful boat. I thought I had posted about it but I have posted not here but on a thread on sailnet about Deck saloons. It has one of the most beautiful interiors I know of.

I had the pleasure of sailing side by side with one. We passed the night on the same cove on an Island on the Galicia coast and we sailed out at the same time. The truth is that I wanted to see how it sailed. There was very little wind, 5 or 6K and even so the guy went sailing. True, slowly, but sailing. I could do a bit better on my boat but I was impressed with the Fantasi. The Fantasi is heavy and the sail area is nothing special but It was capable of doing almost the same speed of a lighter boat with a much better sail area/displacement. It should be alright over 9/10K wind and on the trade winds it should go really well.

The boat is really expensive, so expensive that they know only make them one by one when they have commands.

Take a look at the Fantasi 44. It is even more beautiful, a perfect classic with a great interior. But attention this boat as nothing to do with the e44, except looks. It Is like to compare a Bentley with a Bugati veyron





Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 06-22-2011 at 04:51 AM.
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  #1196  
Old 06-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
A new boat of the kind I like: jpk 38fc
This seems to be racing like fast and comfortable (relatively) at the same time. Up to now the JPKs where less cruising oriented. Different than the Pogo it seems to come with a decent interior and doors!
And: They are already talking about the coming 42 ft version.

Longueur. . . . . . . . . . . 11,38 m
Largeur. . . . . . . . . . . . .3,99 m
Poids. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5,000 t
Moteur Volvo. . . . . . . . . . 30 cv
Lest. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1,900 t
Tirant d'eau quillard. . . . . . . 2,15 m
Tirant d'eau bi-quille. . . . . . . 1,75 m
Voilure
surface au près . . . . . . . . . . . . 80 m2
Spi asymétrique. . . . . .130 m2

Nice to see the traveller at the real end, directly at the transom. So you can install a big bimini. Together with the two tillers this gives lots of living space in the cockpit.
At the same time the interior looks interesting as well.

Ulf
So let's have a better look.

The JPK has a boat that is sold not only for racing but also to the ones that like to cruise fast, the JPK 110.

JPK

The boat has a nice interior is fast and I like it a lot unfortunately the access to the storage spaces from the cockpit is bad. Even on the version with two cabins the access is made trough a small hatch. Not very practical to sail solo. You want to have everything you need at hand and not to go inside the boat to look for something on the storage space.

This one is better. I can see that on the cockpit deck it has a big storage space:



The boat with 5000kg and 80m2 of sail upwind and 130m2 downwind should go fast and easy. The draft is alright for cruising and 38% of B/D ratio, with all the ballast on a bulb at 2.15 should be enough for a good AVS and a good final stability. The boat big beam (form stability) and those 38% of B/D will give it a big initial stability and a lot of power, making it very stable.





The boat has two rudders, two tillers and can have a twin keel (1.75m draft) or a mono keel (2.15 draft) and looks like a RM GT



As you say the running rigging, the position of the winches and traveler looks perfect but that was to be expected in a JPK. JPK is a great sailor and know were all things should be for an easy sailing. The boat will be a pleasure to sail solo.

In what regards the interior I am not very happy. I like more the one from the JPK 110. I am not a big fan of the galley in front of the saloon. Probably it has a bigger galley this way but the saloon loses a lot in my opinion, but this is just a personal taste. I know lots of people prefer this disposition.








The interior seems to have the storage and the space needed for long distance cruising but it is too soon to talk about its quality or its design.

It looks great, even with that interior

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 06-21-2011 at 08:53 PM.
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  #1197  
Old 06-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
A Tayana over the e44? You don't like Crabbers because they are slow and you like the Tayana?

That makes no sense for someone that likes the Cigale and performance boats. I guess you are talking about the old 42 still in production? It has nothing to do the with the e44. This one only looks classic, it has the performances of a very fast modern performance boat.

The Tayana 42 is a 30 old design and sails like a 30 Years old slow boat. There is nothing wrong with that, there are guys that like sailing in old style but it does not add with liking boats like the Cigale or the Elan.

Regarding the Mystery it has nothing to do with the Crabbers and being a relatively fast boat cannot compare with the e44 that is way faster even taking into account the difference in side. I was referring likeness in style, not performance.

Compare the performance of the Mystery 35 with the performance of a First 35 or an Elan 350 and it will be clearly beaten in all points of sail. Compare the performance of the e 44 with a First 45 or a Salona 44 and I bet that the performance will be close and it is possible that the e44 prove faster close to the wind.

Regards

Paulo
I was being sarcastic I'm liking your type of boats, not all of them but those French ones are awesome.

With regards to heavy boats at least with the Shannon, Walter Schultz being one of the true boatmens of our time made the boats truely easy to handle and its built like a tank w/o being so slow. Hes such a likable guy as well.

I'm starting to not like heavy boats, even the nice one like the Pacific Seacrafts, why would I take that for the same price as a Saare 41?? It boggles the mind.

And yes the Fantasi has nothing to do with the e44 because the Fantasi is on a different level. That interior of the 44 is better than my living room.
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Last edited by Chimbatete; 06-21-2011 at 08:53 PM.
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  #1198  
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Chimbatete, thanks for the Fantasi 44. That's without question the most liveable space I've seen yet. I love it that they broke the left-right symmetry (and the sea-Gods didn't smite it down). And, while not everyone will like losing the false modesty of the head partitions, I think it was a stroke of genius.
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  #1199  
Old 06-22-2011
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We have already talked about the new Arcona 410. Here are the first photos, only from outside.

It looks very good in a frontal view:



Not so well from the back or 3/4:







The Dehler looks nicer...on the outside, on the inside I will bet on this one. We will see when we have both boats inside photos.
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  #1200  
Old 06-23-2011
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Fox 10.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Hi Capado!
The FoX boats make a real good impression. I am seeing the 11.60 as a nice, more comfortable alternative to the Pogo 12.50. Very interesting!
Can you let us know how much payload you actually have including crew and what speeds you achieve with that?
Ulf
Hello,
Sorry to answer that late to this request.
We crossed the atlantic successfully with the Fox 10.20. Speed has often been good. Regarding Figaro 2 polars, we have often quicker with winds below 10 knots and above 16 knots. Between 10 and 16 knots, it was diffucult to keep the same VMG downwing as asymetrical does not allow for very low angles.
The boat is quick to reach 9 knots, with surfs at 12 or 13 knots (depending on wave height). Concerning payload, as I am skippering the boat myself, we finished it and maintain it ourselves. I can not help you much on that.

You can check two videos of the crossing on:
YouTube - ‪Atlantique 2011.m4v‬‏
and
YouTube - ‪Traversée Atlantique time laps.m4v‬‏

Obviously, the Fox 11.60 will be a bit more confortable and has a slightly higher average speed.
The thing that the video does not show much is that we helmed the boat very few times, always with the big or fractional asymetrical up. Pilot was good enough to keep the boat fast.

Now it is good to go at 10 knots going down Sainte Lucia. We leave for the Grenadines so we'll get a full use of the lifting keel.

Regards
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