Interesting Sailboats - Page 124 - SailNet Community
 1272Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1231 of 6763 Old 07-03-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,505
Thanks: 21
Thanked 112 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Some interesting information about best average speed on fast cruising boats, the type that is based on the 40class boats. The average regards downwind sailing on the trade winds, the thing these boats were designed to do best.

The data was picked up by a guy (in a French forum) in Horta, Ašores from French sailors that were passing by making transatlantic crossings.

Best 24h:

Opium 39 - 190nm

Cigale 14 - 200nm

But the best average speed comes from a Pogo 10.50 with a very experienced couple aboard (61 et 59 year's old): From Portugal to Porto Santo (Madeira, Portugal) with an average speed of 8.2K. Chapeau

They have an interesting site (French):

Mora Mora
PCP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1232 of 6763 Old 07-03-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,505
Thanks: 21
Thanked 112 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
I have found a nice photo and some interesting comments about it. The photo was taken in the last Round the Island Race and shows the sea conditions. The boat is an Elan 40.







Comments from the guy that had taken the photo:

"Was a slightly scary moment - they held that wave for ages, enough time for us to notice and get the camera out! They came from about 200 yards back and nearly wound up in our cockpit! I've never seen such a heavy boat surf like that before!

And what you can't see is that there was another boat on the same wave! Sadly the only photo of both of them is very out of focus."


Comments from a guy on the Elan 40:

We were on this boat in question - an Elan 40. Conditions were testing - the wind had already put a tear into our mainsail down the leach line. This was a huge swell that kept on going of St Catherines Point that came out of nowhere. It was just as fun/hairy/exciting as it looks! Speed jumped from 8 knots to 16.9 knots.
PCP is offline  
post #1233 of 6763 Old 07-04-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,505
Thanks: 21
Thanked 112 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
First photos of the CR 380DS. Not yet finished but almost. It looks great on the outside, remarkably elegant for a 38ft Deck saloon and with a oak interior. The galley seems very good for a 38ft.

This is going to be a fast boat. The boat is light (6800kg), has a lot of sail area (78m2) and has more 200kg of ballast than an Beneteau oceanis 43...and this is only a 38ft. The hull is very modern, designed by Stephen Jones, narrow but with the beam brought back.





PCP is offline  
post #1234 of 6763 Old 07-06-2011
Senior Member
 
blt2ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,122
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 13
   
THere are two new Jeanneau's coming online, a 42DS out of the 439 hull, and a 509? may need to go relook at my source. I am recalling another size too! Been out of town the last 5 days on the boat. Saw the new ones with limited access. Will figure out in the next day or so now that I am home with links.

The king/summit 40 was that builder/designers boat for the NY YC clubs bid for a new 1D boat for their owners etc. The Swan Club 42 was who won the bid. Not sure WHERE this fell in the overall scheme of what NYYC choose for a club boat. Not sure off the top of my head what the other builder/designers were bidding on that min order of 50 boats, ie first 50 went to club members, had to be under 500K US$ base.

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
blt2ski is offline  
post #1235 of 6763 Old 07-06-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,505
Thanks: 21
Thanked 112 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Thanks Marty. Did not hear nothing about a new 42 DS. Keep us posted

Bad news, it seems that the last posts including a big one about the nominated boats for the European boat of the year contest and some replies (bb74) and some more posts were lost

While I gather patience to put that post up again, stay with some really big sailboats:







http://www.lobanov.co.uk/#

And some more "normal" ones, but not less interesting





PCP is offline  
post #1236 of 6763 Old 07-06-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lake Cowichan BC Canada
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Concentrate on the meat and potatoes. The hull, machinery and rigging. The rest is superficial.
treb001 is offline  
post #1237 of 6763 Old 07-06-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,505
Thanks: 21
Thanked 112 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Here we go again, Jesus, this was a big one


The boats nominated for European boat of the year 2012 contest were announced:

On the Performance cruiser sailboat category many interesting boats, most of them already posted on this thread.

Pogo 12.50

XP44

Grand Soleil 50

Dehler 41

J111


Some of these boats have already been tested by some magazines and they are going to be extensively tested by all the main European sailboat magazines. I am very curious about the Dehler 41. I know that the Pogo and the XP44 are great sailboats and the Grand Soleil looks just beautiful and they are normally very fast. Only the J111 seems a bit out of place here and it is a pity because it is a great boat, but more a race boat than a performance cruiser. I don't really understand why they did not put it on the Special sailboat category.



Nominated for the Family Cruiser category:


Benetau Oceanis 45

Dufour 445

Jeanneau 376

Elan 210

RM 1060


Most of these were also posted on the thread. Like the J111 I think that the Elan 210 should not be here. This is a performance boat and should be among those not here, or are they discriminating based on size . It can go faster than a lot of much bigger boats. Regarding the others, the Oceanis is too plain, the Jeanneau 376 looks a not so nice 409 clone and I think the winner is going to be or the Dufour or the RM. The Dufour comes in the continuity of the 425, a great boat, but seems even better and nicer and the RM bets on the innovation, but some youth problems (heavy steering an unappealing interior) can compromise its position against a Dufour here everything seems right.

Make your bets!!!

Tomorrow I will post about the other two caregories

Last edited by PCP; 07-06-2011 at 08:46 PM.
PCP is offline  
post #1238 of 6763 Old 07-06-2011
Senior Member
 
bjung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Blue Ridge
Posts: 476
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Some interesting information about best average speed on fast cruising boats, the type that is based on the 40class boats. The average regards downwind sailing on the trade winds, the thing these boats were designed to do best.

The data was picked up by a guy (in a French forum) in Horta, Ašores from French sailors that were passing by making transatlantic crossings.

Best 24h:

Opium 39 - 190nm

Cigale 14 - 200nm

But the best average speed comes from a Pogo 10.50 with a very experienced couple aboard (61 et 59 year's old): From Portugal to Porto Santo (Madeira, Portugal) with an average speed of 8.2K. Chapeau

They have an interesting site (French):

Mora Mora
Well, my personal take on this SN blackout is that PCP hacked the system to remove this vessel Freya 39 Review : Bluewaterboats.org from the thread .
I find it interresting that such an "outdated " design can knock off as many miles as the modern racers/cruisers mentioned above. And propably a lot more comfortably....
bjung is offline  
post #1239 of 6763 Old 07-06-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,505
Thanks: 21
Thanked 112 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
Well, my personal take on this SN blackout is that PCP hacked the system to remove this vessel Freya 39 Review : Bluewaterboats.org from the thread .
I find it interresting that such an "outdated " design can knock off as many miles as the modern racers/cruisers mentioned above. And propably a lot more comfortably....
Well, I think we can consider the Freya 39 as a classic even if it is not properly what we would call a classic boat but I agree that is still a good looking boat. Regarding performance the boat is only interesting on a historical perspective.





The Freya 39 was 40 years ago a very fast boat and still is not a slow boat for a long keeler but makes no sense any comparison with a modern performance boat.

The boat is obviously a displacement boat and has a hull speed of 7.8K. At that speed over 24h we will get 187,2K. It will be pretty difficult to get that and eventually in absolutely perfect conditions downwind the boat can sail slightly over hull speed and make the 8.3K needed to make 200 nm in a day. Almost a miracle but in a boat that has more than 40 years of sailing around the globe I guess that can happen some times among all the boats.

But of course, given those perfect conditions a Cigale 14 will be making 360 nm a day and the Opium 39 will be making over 300nm a day. On the post where those averages (200nm) were posted it was said that a guy in a Pogo 10.50, a much smaller boat had averaged for several days 199nm. Not once in a life time, but several days in a row in a single voyage, in fact in all the days of that passage. Nothing to do with the very rare possibility of a Freya 39 doing 200nm in a day in a lifetime.

When I have posted that a guy had said that a Cigale 14 and a Opium 39 that had passed by Horta (Azores) had made as best average on that voyage 200nm I was not referring the best average of that boat, just saying that with that type of boats is really easy to make 200nm a day on the trade winds.

The boat pictured in the photo has done a lot of Atlantic crossings and a proud owner says that the fastest has taken 19 days. Adrien on the Capado, a FOX 10.20. a much smaller boat took 17 days on is FIRST crossing.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 07-06-2011 at 10:13 PM.
PCP is offline  
post #1240 of 6763 Old 07-06-2011
Senior Member
 
bjung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Blue Ridge
Posts: 476
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Paulo,
I'm not trying to argue the speed potential of modern designs, but the reality while cruising long distances. Also, the hullspeed you calculated is with the waterline at rest, not heeling...
But, let's cut right through polars and theory, and take a look at the Sydney Hobart line honours 2010 compared to 1964.
The Freya beat: First 40, Pogo 40 , X43, Salona 44 retired, and the list goes on..
The same goes for 2009 and 2008. The Freya was between 4d01hr to 4d15hr in a 3 year stretch. Take a look at all the boats, not able to make that time today. The list is full of rockets. Granted, conditions play a roll, but they do while cruising as well.
Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2010..
Honestly, not my dreamboat, but a fast one even by todays standards, and solid as a rock.
Give credit where credit is due....
Sorry for the sidetrack.

Bernd
bjung is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 11 (0 members and 11 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 27 10-04-2015 01:38 PM
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome