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  #121  
Old 08-03-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hey Man, great post

I agree with almost everything you have said even If I find those "Bluewater cruising yachts" pretty dated in what concerns design.

The cruising line of Elans are really too fat. You mean they had not any of the performance line there? The Elan 380 and the 410 are really nice boats, with very nice interiors. No fat ladies, but athletic gals with a nice and accommodating body, if you know what I mean

No Benetaus First? The 45 and the 50 are beautiful boats with a great interior.

I agree about the big Dehler: what a boat...and what a price

What Salona was there? You know the Salona is better appreciated on the water. It is a very good sailboat. This month I am going to visit the shipyard and have a look at the first Salona 41. Finished, but not yet out of the factory

I agree that the big Hanse are just beautiful. Perhaps they have improved the interior, as you say. As I have said on a previous post, they are just changing their design concept, and for the better.

About the trimaran, would that not be a Dragonfly? I love those boats and if the 35ft was not sooooo expensive I would just buy one and live in a very frugal way...just to have the pleasure to cruise at 20k.

About the European boat shows, there are Dusseldorf and Paris...forget about the others

Why don't you come to Paris, to the next one? I am going and there are worst cities to visit than Paris . I am sure that your wife would love it (I mean, not the boat show, the city ).

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,
No doubt the Bluewaters are dated. From memory they came off Adams drawing board over 20 years ago. So yes, old fashioned and slow but nonetheless lovely boat.

Re Elan...I get where you are coming from . They only had two boats, the 384 and the 340 which is a nice enough thing but I was really hoping to see a 350.

Yes there were a couple of Firsts but once she had seen the Oceanus she did not want anything to do with Beneteaus. To be honest she was still drooling about the Dehler.

Which is oh yes, what a price indeed but the Wombet was scrabbling about everywhere on that D45. She loved it. The dealer was pretty happy with the new 32. Certainly more realistically priced.

The Hanse interior is still apartment living, but it is expensive apartment living not some Ikea furnished students flat.

Trimaran not a Dragonfly. Much smaller. This little thing could not have been bigger than 21-22'. I'll fine the details.

Love to do Paris and the Wombet would not object at all. She would be just as happy touring the boat show as out shopping for clothes, in fact she would rather look at boats than clothes. Then a nice little bistro for dinner. She'd be quite happy. Only problem is that I need to go to Europe some time September this year or April next. I doubt that I can manage an extra trip in the middle. We shall see. Damned expensive flying from Oz to Europe I'm afraid.
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  #122  
Old 08-03-2010
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Paris Boat Show

That begs the question - when is it?

Let see 2 return tickets= $3200
Accom for at least 5 nights= $750
Food etc= $1000
Luis Vutton and other expenses= $3000

Hmmmm $10K OZ just for a show.

I think i can swing it with the wife but that chews into the deposit.

Dreaming.
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  #123  
Old 08-04-2010
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Boat show - Paris 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenif View Post
That begs the question - when is it?

Let see 2 return tickets= $3200
Accom for at least 5 nights= $750
Food etc= $1000
Luis Vutton and other expenses= $3000

Hmmmm $10K OZ just for a show.

I think i can swing it with the wife but that chews into the deposit.

Dreaming.
Jesus, I like my wife's tastes. They are not very expensive and she would prefer wasting that kind of money travelling.

Paris Boat show:

Visites virtuelles à 360° du Nautic - Salon Nautique de paris 2009

Nautic - Salon Nautique de Paris 2010 - The annual gathering of the world of boating and water sports

Nautic - Salon Nautique de Paris 2010 - Le rendez-vous incontournable du nautisme à Paris !

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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  #124  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Waiting for your comments on the Pogo 40
I have not so much experience with different types of boats but the Pogo 40-trip (cruising version) gave me a clear vision of what to do in future.

We made a trip with 6 persons, crossed the Biscaya from Brest and continued to Madeira non stop (September). 7 Days action. There was not one calm, sunny day with little wind (e.g. <10 knots) only. Mostly we ran down wind. Inside the boat is was usually quite noisy due to the high speed and the thin walls. Steering the boat even at high speed feels like steering a skiff. Great, Impressive! It is very easy to control. This boat is fast. We had min. 8-10 knots most of the time, 15 knots with good conditions and our max speed was 22 knots in gusts.
During more than one day of this trip we had 30-38 knots up wind (5 knots, 3rd reef, trinquette). Tough - with very hard landings when falling down on the backside of the waves. (as the bottom is quite flat...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Condensation everywhere is related with that experience?
Well, comfort is limited...
With high speed it is difficult to open any hatch without getting water inside. So you have just the companion hatchway to get fresh air inside.
On that trip we had after about 4 days a lot of condensation on the ceiling. So my sleeping bag got wet from dropping water - like in a stalactite cave.
A Webasto heater would help partly only. E.g. can not have it running all night.
(so better to sail in warm regions with this boat or make sure you can get good ventilation from time to time)

Pogo 12.50 is from my point of view really great because the design is a bit more optimized for quality of life aboard (but not too much, please) and easy handling. You don't have water ballast (which is anyway cool I must admit) but a swing keel. So draft is no problem anymore. You have real doors inside! And you have an even more spacious cockpit.
Cruising with such a boat in warm weather could be great!

Pogo 10.50 is the cheaper option. May be big enough? I am not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanRW View Post
(now where'd I hide my chequebook ?)
This could help to get such a ship... :-)
Relevance of VAT when selling a boat in EU



Yours,
Ulf
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  #125  
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Paulo.

my wife her money.
She just likes quality souvineers of where we visit.

I've tried the 'waste' argument and lost. She is a lot smarter than me - after all she married me!
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  #126  
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Paulo.

my wife her money.
She just likes quality souvineers of where we visit.

I've tried the 'waste' argument and lost. She is a lot smarter than me - after all she married me!
That's the very issue that concerns me about the Wombet. For someone who is so smart how come she ended up with me ?
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Old 08-04-2010
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That's the very issue that concerns me about the Wombet. For someone who is so smart how come she ended up with me ?
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  #128  
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The Opium is a lovely thing is it not ? As you say Paulo, maybe not as fast as the Pogo but a much more civilised boat for cruising. The head could be a little more civilised, but its not bad while the idea of that storage compartment accessible from the head is clever thinking.

The questions I have is ..how weight sensitive are these boats ? I mean boats of this design concept. With a crew of two who defintely like to eat and drink well and who tend to carry around a small library of books are we likely to load them up so much that they lose any preformance benefits ?
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  #129  
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On design - load and speed on a light boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
The Opium is a lovely thing is it not ? As you say Paulo, maybe not as fast as the Pogo but a much more civilised boat for cruising. The head could be a little more civilised, but its not bad while the idea of that storage compartment accessible from the head is clever thinking.

The questions I have is ..how weight sensitive are these boats ? I mean boats of this design concept. With a crew of two who defintely like to eat and drink well and who tend to carry around a small library of books are we likely to load them up so much that they lose any preformance benefits ?
That question has two answers :

As you know the boat designer establish for each boat its maximum load. On the first years the EC certification had only into account a minimum load stability curve. Today they consider, to evaluate a boat stability, both curves, minimum and max load curves. The max load is the load considered safe, for sailing the boat.

I was surprised by the max load of the Opium. If I remember correctly, it can carry about 2000 kg of weight and that is huge if we consider that the boat only weights 5600kg. As comparison, the Bavaria 36 had a carrying capacity of 1000kg and that is a normal max load for a modern 36ft. The Bavaria weighted about the same as the Opium.

with Geenaker and main sail the Opium has 179 m2 of sail that can use from 60º to 160º. This gives it a fantastic sailing ability in light winds. Even with full load its weight is similar to a modern cruiser racer and much less than a pure cruising boat (less 3000kg and a lot more sail).

Now, if you are talking of a very sportive kind of sailing, planning downwind at 15 or 16k, yes a very loaded Opium (near its max load) is not going to plann as easely and it will make a big difference, but it still will be a fast and safe boat, if compared with other boats of the same size carrying the same load.

About how nice it is , go to the link on the bottom, have patience and after opening it, you will look at what it is a promotional picture of a city and a beach. Let it be and on the end of the page click on "Voile et Loisirs". There you are, on the Paris Nautical boat show. Maximize the image (top) right and you are going to see lots of nice boats. Look for the Opium: yes it is a very nice boat .

After doing that, go again and on a bottom chose "allures 57" and you are going to see the interior of one of the best aluminum French voyage boats. It don't looks like the rustic interior of a typical aluminum boat, it looks just perfect

Visites virtuelles à 360° du Nautic - Salon Nautique de paris 2009

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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  #130  
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Wow..compared with Sydney that is magnificent.

Allures 40 would do me.....

Actually I don't really care for a lifting keel. Yes they have their attractions in some places but I think I'd prefer the simplicity of fixed. As long as the draft is kept to and absolute maximum of 2.2 and preferably 2.0.
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