Interesting Sailboats - Page 134 - SailNet Community
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post #1331 of 6763 Old 07-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
And with that post and the previous I think the traveler subject is completely covered.
Hunter's arch mounted traveller deserves at least passing mention in this context.

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post #1332 of 6763 Old 07-24-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
One another thing I forgot in the Opium 39 review was that the engine size and poor performance under engine is not an issue since it seems to have been due to a too small prop. On my boat we put a bigger flex-o-fold on the standard 30 hp Yanmar and performance is great. 6,7 knots at 2500 rews and feeling like a planing motor boat at top speed 8 knots.

Regards,
Anders
I'm also very happy to hear that, Anders.
When sailing the Pogo 10.50 I was dissapointed about the performance under engine and I'm not shure this will be any better with the 12.50. Like your Opium, they are beamy and light displacement boats and may be they will also benefit from a bigger propeller.
I will certainly discuss this with the yard!

Best regards,

Eric
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post #1333 of 6763 Old 07-26-2011
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Hmmm. I miss Paulo's daily update of this thread. It must the starting of their summer vacation. I will look forward another update in two months. Those Europeans sure have a good life; we are the slaves of the world.


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post #1334 of 6763 Old 07-26-2011
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Meanwhile I am more and more drifting towards multihull. The Outremer 42 looks really attractive to me. A kind of Cat-Pogo, may be even faster, but with more comfort (more space) and even less draft (go closer to the beach).
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post #1335 of 6763 Old 07-27-2011
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Look here
Outremer 42

Length: 13,10 m
Width: 7,00 m
Draft: 0, 70 - 2,30 m
Displacement: 7,1 / 9,4 T
Mast hight: 17.80 m
Main sail: 65 m2
Solent: 29 m2
Gennaker: 65 m2
Spinnaker: 98 m2

OK, this is certainly more pricey but I compare with an Pogo 12 .50 and I am seeing so much more comfort/space while the fun factor is probably the same.
Would be interesting to compare the polars.
Ulf
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11560056.jpg   segelboot-kreuzer-outremer-fr-68124-outremer-42-mit-whisperprop-de-25-propulsion-eacutelectrique.jpg  
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post #1336 of 6763 Old 07-27-2011
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There are advantages to a multihull (fast, low draft, huge space, no heeling), but for me the disadvantages( higher marina cost, the possibility to break apart in heavy weather, not self righting ) outweigh the positives.
I'm not sure the Swedestar 370 has been mentioned before, but it should appeal to the performance oriented crowd.
‪The sexy Swedish Swedestar 370‬‏ - YouTube
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post #1337 of 6763 Old 07-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
There are advantages to a multihull (fast, low draft, huge space, no heeling), but for me the disadvantages( higher marina cost, the possibility to break apart in heavy weather, not self righting ) outweigh the positives.
I'm not sure the Swedestar 370 has been mentioned before, but it should appeal to the performance oriented crowd.
‪The sexy Swedish Swedestar 370‬‏ - YouTube
Yacht Södergren
Its a very nice boat but very expensive. For that money I think from what Paulo has posted the Danes seem to have it right with the perfect package of high performance cruisers , X-Yachts, Luffe and the Dragonfly 35.

I think for anyone not crossing Oceans on a monthly basis, these are the perfect boats. Perfect for the lake round the buoy, long distance races, cruising and entertaining and beautiful at dock and still can go offshore if needed.

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post #1338 of 6763 Old 07-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbatete View Post
Its a very nice boat but very expensive. For that money I think from what Paulo has posted the Danes seem to have it right with the perfect package of high performance cruisers , X-Yachts, Luffe and the Dragonfly 35.

I think for anyone not crossing Oceans on a monthly basis, these are the perfect boats. Perfect for the lake round the buoy, long distance races, cruising and entertaining and beautiful at dock and still can go offshore if needed.
If you check , you will find the Swedestar is actually less expensive then X -Yachts and Luffe. The Dragonfly is not ocean worthy enough to be in that company, a lake sailor.
Compared with the XC 38, the Swedestar has 5000lbs. less displacement while carrying the same amout of canvas. You can bet it will be faster in light air, but will also have to be reefed early. Not exactly what I am looking for, but worthy of a mention. If I was buying a 37 some footer, it would be either HR372, Xc 38 or Regina 38.
http://www.x-yachts.com/uploads/xc_38review.pdf
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post #1339 of 6763 Old 07-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
If you check , you will find the Swedestar is actually less expensive then X -Yachts and Luffe. The Dragonfly is not ocean worthy enough to be in that company, a lake sailor.
Compared with the XC 38, the Swedestar has 5000lbs. less displacement while carrying the same amout of canvas. You can bet it will be faster in light air, but will also have to be reefed early. Not exactly what I am looking for, but worthy of a mention. If I was buying a 37 some footer, it would be either HR372, Xc 38 or Regina 38.
http://www.x-yachts.com/uploads/xc_38review.pdf
I'm surprised that its less expensive because Swede boats are generally in the >$500k range for 40 footers.

I guess if I lived in the East or West Coast I would dream of the Malos and "relatively" fast cruisers like you mentioned. They are great boats. But for what I need it for and my sailing location a performance Cruiser would be perfect. Like the Luffe 40.04, even the Opium 39.

My typical summer week is 2 weeknight crewing on races, weekend cruising and ocassional crewing weekend Regattas. Now Id love to do long distance races within the Great Lakes as well.

So I have some perfect boats in mind for what I'm going to do. Theres two types for me, dream boats and most likely boats.

Dream boats are those I've mentioned in my prior post, X yachts xp line wouldn't be bad, Arconas etc.

Reality is even if I have the money, its unlikely to go into getting one of those. There is some achievable dream boats though like the Jeanneau 409,
First 30 but I'll have to wait for used ones.

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post #1340 of 6763 Old 07-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Meanwhile I am more and more drifting towards multihull. The Outremer 42 looks really attractive to me. A kind of Cat-Pogo, may be even faster, but with more comfort (more space) and even less draft (go closer to the beach).
Comparing monohulls with multihulls is of course quite tricky, but it certainly is an excellent exercise to value different characteristics.
In this perspective I think Ulf makes a very good point by presenting a definitely performance orientated catamaran against a monohull with somewhat multihull-like characteristics.

Both are light and built in composite materials, the Outremer with dagger boards and the Pogo with a deep and slender pivoting keel.
Unfortunately, I do not know the polars of either of these boats. But both will probably very much dislike to be loaded the way liveaboards would want to.
Otherwise they should perform very well, especially downwind and even compared to most of their mono- or multihull concurrents. But the Pogo can carry a much bigger asymmetric spinnaker and has less weight, so it should at least be able to keep up with the catamaran. And I also think almost any monohull must be more rewarding at the helm than almost any catamaran.

Although the Pogo certainly isn’t the most performant monohull upwind and while the Outremer will probably beat most other catamarans, there seems to be little doubt that the VMG of the monohull will be better.
Anyone who has ever experienced two hulls, intimately tied together and trying to overcome the same seas at an angle, will agree that this quickly results in a quite chaotic and unpredictable behavior. The always massive coachroof with little or no forward view for anyone but the helmsman also does not help to make the crew feel comfortable in these situations. Therefore some might prefer the sound heel and clear view of a monohull.

Even below decks both yachts share the same philosophy, with interiors that offer all the basics but that are further kept as simple as possible to save weight and avoid unnecessary trouble and maintenance.
The Outremer 42 has limited space inside compared to more cruising oriented catamarans, but is still much more roomy than even the most generous monohull. The Pogo 12.50 has much more space in- and outside than almost any other monohull of comparable size, but can never compete with the Outremer in this prospect. At anchor, nothing beats the trampoline of a catamaran, the panoramic saloon, the huge and sheltered cockpit, the handling of the tender. And with two engines wide apart, you can hardly miss any maneuver.

Although the Pogo is not cheap and he Outremer is considered good value for money, building a catamaran will always involve more hardware and inevitably be more expensive. Of course the same goes for berthing costs.

So both yachts share the same concept of performance, simplicity and building quality.
Apart from financial considerations, liveaboards and blue water cruisers have very good reasons to prefer a catamaran. It seems this Outremer will give them excellent sailing performance and at anchor any catamaran will make you feel in paradise.
But once a sound degree of heel is accepted, I think the monohull will be faster in almost any condition and more rewarding to sail.
There probably are no bad choices, only personal ones. I perfectly understand your dilemma, Ulf!

Best regards,

Eric
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