Interesting Sailboats - Page 136 - SailNet Community
 1269Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1351 of 6763 Old 08-29-2011
Senior Member
 
Chimbatete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 169
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Hi Paulo,

Just went to my first boat show. Loved the SO409, what a boat!. It had a sail away price of $250k. I looked at the First 30 ($150k) and it was great boat as well. Only thing is it didnt have a backstay. There was also a Hanse dealer which had the 400 ($250k) on display and he was almost insinuating that it was a better boat than the 409He mentioned the chines of the 409 as silly since its not a planing boat.

Another question, why is the Opium 39 selling at $350k almost the same price as a 2010 Luffe 4004 with the carbon mast ($400k). Is the Opium that good?

How does it compare to the X's, Elans and Salona 38 for example? I'm talking about quality boat for boat not downwind vs. upwind.

BTW that Salona 38 looks awesome. Whats the price on that?

Chuck

1974 CC 27

Last edited by Chimbatete; 08-29-2011 at 09:28 PM.
Chimbatete is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1352 of 6763 Old 08-30-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,201
Thanks: 21
Thanked 103 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbatete View Post
Hi Paulo,

Just went to my first boat show. Loved the SO409, what a boat!. It had a sail away price of $250k. I looked at the First 30 ($150k) and it was great boat as well. Only thing is it didnt have a backstay. There was also a Hanse dealer which had the 400 ($250k) on display and he was almost insinuating that it was a better boat than the 409He mentioned the chines of the 409 as silly since its not a planing boat.

Another question, why is the Opium 39 selling at $350k almost the same price as a 2010 Luffe 4004 with the carbon mast ($400k). Is the Opium that good?

How does it compare to the X's, Elans and Salona 38 for example? I'm talking about quality boat for boat not downwind vs. upwind.

BTW that Salona 38 looks awesome. Whats the price on that?

Chuck
Hi Chimbatete,

It seems you do really like boats

Yes boat shows are great for the ones that love boats even when they don't have money to buy them right now. If you ever get the chance go to Dusseldorf, that's the Mecca of sailboats and also a nice place to have a look at central Europe.

So many questions. Yes the Opium is a Wauquiez and they were for many years the top range of the Benetau group, a kind of a Lexus to Nissan. Yes the Opium is a great boat and the quality is better than Benetau, Jeanneau, Hanse, Bavaria probably comparable to Dehler.

There is something wrong with your prices, a Carbon mast Luffe 4004 will cost more than what you say. Here you have an used one without carbon mast almost by that price:

For Sale. Luffe (DK) Luffe 40.04 TOP - Rostock Baltic Sea, Germany - 3126320

I believe the Jeanneau 409 is a better boat than the Hanse 400, not in quality (similar) but by design. I bet Hanse is going to substitute the 400 this year.

Regarding X yachts, Salona and Elan I would say that the X yachts by price and interior quality are competing with Luffe, Arcona, Finngulf not with Salona or Elan. However there are a lot of guys that had X yachts and are buying Salonas. They are less expensive have much improved the interior and share with X yachts (and Luffe) an interior steel frame to take the efforts from the keel and shrouds (now it seems that X yachts is using a carbon frame).

The Elan are great boats and the design is very good (350) are well built but for what I have saw in the new Salona 41 that I have charted, the Salona interior is now a bit better and I would prefer the safety of the Salona stainless steel frame. But Elan and Salona are really on the same market building boats that in my opinion are a bit better than mass production boats.

Another difference with Salona is that they allow a certain amount of boat customization and that is very rare in boats with this price and only possible because Salona is still a small company. Salonas will cost about the same as Elans, about 20% less than a Dehler and about 20% more than a First.

Final note: The First 30 is a great boat and it has no backstay because it is designed that way and don't need one. Some other performance boats like the Pogo don't also have them.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 08-30-2011 at 03:45 PM.
PCP is offline  
post #1353 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,201
Thanks: 21
Thanked 103 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
I had already said that I didn't like the drawings for the Dehler 41 interior. They seemed to be designed by the team that designs the Hanse (Dehler belongs now to Hanse) and they are far away in quality from the best Italian and French interior designers.



Well, my fears were confirmed, they finally posted the photos from the interior (a looong way after they have posted the outside photos), they changed some things regarding the drawings but the interior is still very poor, dark, Hanse like and unimaginative. To put things even worse they have hull portlights on the cabins but not on the saloon. That makes no sense at all and contributes to that gloomy interior. The mast is almost on the middle of the saloon. If they really need the mast there they should have gone for another type of mast, I mean deck stepped, except on racing boats were the interior does not matter so much.









A sad story: How to ruin a very nice sailing boat with a really bad interior. I had some months back a good offer to buy a Hanse 41 when the boat was still in the making....Jesus, I am happy to have gone another way

They had lowered the prices of the 41, comparing with the 39 but the interior seems to be of lower quality and mainly the interior design sucks!!!

A bad move to have the interior designed by the Hanse team. The best French and Italian designers are so much better that makes no sense to stay with the home team. They need a good interior designer and they needed it quickly.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 08-31-2011 at 12:57 PM.
PCP is offline  
post #1354 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,374
Thanks: 148
Thanked 132 Times in 125 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Hey PCP - a while back you highlighted a cruising boat that a racer had designed...along the lines of the Open style. It had a crazy rotating nav station. What boat was that?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is online now  
post #1355 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011
Senior Member
 
JAndersB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 467
Thanks: 6
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Hey PCP - a while back you highlighted a cruising boat that a racer had designed...along the lines of the Open style. It had a crazy rotating nav station. What boat was that?
It was this, I guess:
http://www.jpdick-yachts.com/index.php?lang=EN

Furthermore, I had a look at both the Dehler 41 and new Arcona 410 this last weekend at the open yard show at Hallberg-Rassy. I agree with you Paulo, the Dehler 41 did not give any nice vibrations. Furthermore, to lead the jib sheet through a bulls eye in the middle of the side deck, making at least a 40 degree bend without any roller bearings or block seems crazy to me. The Arcona did also feel "old fashion".

The Jeanneau 409, which I have seen before, still is a real show winner. With double rudders and a little bit of "performance" in her it would definitively be interesting.

Regarding pricing and Opium price I am still finding out all the time from my boat why it has a higher price. Arriwing back at home harbour I tried to close the toilet water intake. I had to follow the piping through the whole interior before I found it in the middle of the boat just behind the keel even if toilet is on the port sider in the front. This way it does not suck air on a beat. Full balsa hull and sandwich interior, oversized and plenty of deck gear, I still have a bag full of top of the line Harken gear that was left over, are other things that push the price up even if I agree that it is expensive.

Regards,
Anders
JAndersB is offline  
post #1356 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011
tdw
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
tdw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 16,409
Thanks: 15
Thanked 103 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Paulo,
I was on a Salona 39 at the recent Sydney boat show and I confess the quality of the interior appointments disappointed me. Now the Sydney Boat Show is a piss poor event in the main. The usual suspects are there of course but there is very little beyond your typical production cruiser racer. I expected the Salona to stand out from the crowd. It didn't.

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew B

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett, Nation

Malo 39 Classic
tdw is offline  
post #1357 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,201
Thanks: 21
Thanked 103 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Paulo,
I was on a Salona 39 at the recent Sydney boat show and I confess the quality of the interior appointments disappointed me. Now the Sydney Boat Show is a piss poor event in the main. The usual suspects are there of course but there is very little beyond your typical production cruiser racer. I expected the Salona to stand out from the crowd. It didn't.

Cheers
Andrew
Andrews there is some confusion here: The Salona has not a 39. It has a 34 a 38 a 41 a 44 and it will have a 60.

Home - Salona Yachts

You could have seen an old 37 (I sailed the first 38 some days back in Croatia and the boat is going to Cannes boat show) or perhaps a 41?

Salona has a stupid politic in what regards boat shows: While all the others big brands show brand new boats Salona show demo boats that show some use and furthermore they don't put the boats in tip top shape, I mean regarding adjusting cabinet doors drawers, that sort of stuff furthermore and even more important while big companies have a very professional approach in what regards interior and exterior lighting of the boat (more lightening that the one used on the boat interior and outside projectors giving more interior illumination) they just present the boat with its own illumination and without having projectors helping. I don't need to tell you the importance of lightening on a boat presentation. Maybe they have not the means to do otherwise.

I have already noticed this on several boat shows and have even told them that they should improve the presentation of their boats on boat shows and improve lighting.

What I can tell you for sure is that I have charted last year a brand new Dufour 425 and this year a brand new Salona 41. The Dufour are the more expensive and better finished of all French mass production sail boats and I can tell you that without any doubt the Salona 41 was not only better finished but had also better quality material everywhere, I mean from the cabinet lockers to the door knobs. At least that is my opinion after sailing both boats for at least a week.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 08-31-2011 at 09:14 PM.
PCP is offline  
post #1358 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011
Senior Member
 
blt2ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
   
Anders,

Funny thing about your comment re the 409 and a bit of performance. Three of us on the Jeanneau-owners.com forum site, were all saying a bit more power, ie about a meter taller mast, deeper keel or a iron/lead option, upgraded winches both on the deck and cabin top, with 2 sets of winches on the deck for HS and spins. Probably slightly deeper thinner rudders, 3 reef ability on the main to name a few things we all thought would be good to have, ie a super performance over the std P version, which really only has a folding prop, upgraded deck gear and spin option. If one is going to upgrade, lets do a serious UPGRADE to the PERFORMANCE of the boat!

I have not seen one yet.....there is a boat show in Seattle in a couple of weeks, hopefully will have a chance to gander at the 409 and 379.

marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
blt2ski is offline  
post #1359 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011 Thread Starter
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,201
Thanks: 21
Thanked 103 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Hey PCP - a while back you highlighted a cruising boat that a racer had designed...along the lines of the Open style. It had a crazy rotating nav station. What boat was that?
Hey Smack, Anders is right, it is the JP 52. I posted about it on post 172 and I believe someone talked about the boat more recently.

Interesting Sailboats

Regards

Paulo
PCP is offline  
post #1360 of 6763 Old 08-31-2011
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,374
Thanks: 148
Thanked 132 Times in 125 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
It was this, I guess:
http://www.jpdick-yachts.com/index.php?lang=EN

Furthermore, I had a look at both the Dehler 41 and new Arcona 410 this last weekend at the open yard show at Hallberg-Rassy. I agree with you Paulo, the Dehler 41 did not give any nice vibrations. Furthermore, to lead the jib sheet through a bulls eye in the middle of the side deck, making at least a 40 degree bend without any roller bearings or block seems crazy to me. The Arcona did also feel "old fashion".

The Jeanneau 409, which I have seen before, still is a real show winner. With double rudders and a little bit of "performance" in her it would definitively be interesting.

Regarding pricing and Opium price I am still finding out all the time from my boat why it has a higher price. Arriwing back at home harbour I tried to close the toilet water intake. I had to follow the piping through the whole interior before I found it in the middle of the boat just behind the keel even if toilet is on the port sider in the front. This way it does not suck air on a beat. Full balsa hull and sandwich interior, oversized and plenty of deck gear, I still have a bag full of top of the line Harken gear that was left over, are other things that push the price up even if I agree that it is expensive.

Regards,
Anders
That's it! Thanks Anders.

Okay, a question for you guys:

I have a client who's toying with the idea of buying a very big, very luxurious, very fast boat. (I got him hooked into sailing over the past year.) Here is the list I've given him:

1. JP54
2. X-Yachts 65
3. Oyster 82
4. Swan 80

Personally, my favorite is the Swan 80. I have to get this right because I'll be "helping him" sail it (along with a pro skipper and a few crew of course). No joke.

So what have I left off the list?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-31-2011 at 09:38 PM.
smackdaddy is online now  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (0 members and 5 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 07-08-2011 05:51 AM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome