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  #1361  
Old 08-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
It was this, I guess:
http://www.jpdick-yachts.com/index.php?lang=EN

Furthermore, I had a look at both the Dehler 41 and new Arcona 410 this last weekend at the open yard show at Hallberg-Rassy. I agree with you Paulo, the Dehler 41 did not give any nice vibrations. Furthermore, to lead the jib sheet through a bulls eye in the middle of the side deck, making at least a 40 degree bend without any roller bearings or block seems crazy to me. The Arcona did also feel "old fashion".

The Jeanneau 409, which I have seen before, still is a real show winner. With double rudders and a little bit of "performance" in her it would definitively be interesting.

Regarding pricing and Opium price I am still finding out all the time from my boat why it has a higher price. Arriwing back at home harbour I tried to close the toilet water intake. I had to follow the piping through the whole interior before I found it in the middle of the boat just behind the keel even if toilet is on the port sider in the front. This way it does not suck air on a beat. Full balsa hull and sandwich interior, oversized and plenty of deck gear, I still have a bag full of top of the line Harken gear that was left over, are other things that push the price up even if I agree that it is expensive.

Regards,
Anders
That's it! Thanks Anders.

Okay, a question for you guys:

I have a client who's toying with the idea of buying a very big, very luxurious, very fast boat. (I got him hooked into sailing over the past year.) Here is the list I've given him:

1. JP54
2. X-Yachts 65
3. Oyster 82
4. Swan 80

Personally, my favorite is the Swan 80. I have to get this right because I'll be "helping him" sail it (along with a pro skipper and a few crew of course). No joke.

So what have I left off the list?
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S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-31-2011 at 09:38 PM.
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  #1362  
Old 08-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Anders,

Funny thing about your comment re the 409 and a bit of performance. Three of us on the Jeanneau-owners.com forum site, were all saying a bit more power, ie about a meter taller mast, deeper keel or a iron/lead option, upgraded winches both on the deck and cabin top, with 2 sets of winches on the deck for HS and spins. Probably slightly deeper thinner rudders, 3 reef ability on the main to name a few things we all thought would be good to have, ie a super performance over the std P version, which really only has a folding prop, upgraded deck gear and spin option. If one is going to upgrade, lets do a serious UPGRADE to the PERFORMANCE of the boat!

I have not seen one yet.....there is a boat show in Seattle in a couple of weeks, hopefully will have a chance to gander at the 409 and 379.

marty
Marty, the problem with that is that it is expensive

The Jeanneau 409 on the performance version has already plenty of sail for its righting moment and I bet the boat will reef with not to much wind. To put more power on the boat (more sail) you have to increase righting moment and you can do that with a deeper keel and lead ballast or with lead and more ballast.

That is expensive but not as much as the hull reinforcements needed to take the extra stress. With all the other stuff you talk about (bigger winches, more winches) that would turn the 409 in an expensive boat. If Jeanneau does no do that is because they believe that they would not sell enough boats to make it profitable.

Anyway you could make it a better performance boat but not really a competitive cruiser-racer: The bow entries are just not fine enough to make it a upwind beast. The boat was designed to be a cruiser and on those the front cabin has precedence over top upwind performance.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1363  
Old 08-31-2011
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paulo,

For those of use with Jeanneau's, wanting to stay with jeanneau........ we can only hope!

RIght now, I have to admit, not sure I would buy a new one. Altho wife does like them, not sure I would. An X34 or 37, maybe a 35, or an Elan 350......to name a few. There was another a few pages back I really liked the evosion 35, but wife thought it was a bit plain on the interior.....

For those of use thinking of upgrading the 409, we assume it would add some to the bill!

Marty
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  #1364  
Old 08-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Andrews there is some confusion here: The Salona has not a 39. It has a 34 a 38 a 41 a 44 and it will have a 60.

Home - Salona Yachts

You could have seen an old 37 (I sailed the first 38 some days back in Croatia and the boat is going to Cannes boat show) or perhaps a 41?

What I can tell you for sure is that I have charted last year a brand new Dufour 425 and this year a brand new Salona 41. The Dufour are the more expensive and better finished of all French mass production sail boats and I can tell you that without any doubt the Salona 41 was not only better finished but had also better quality material everywhere, I mean from the cabinet lockers to the door knobs. At least that is my opinion after sailing both boats for at least a week.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,
Maybe a 41 then. I have the details at home, not here at the office.
Ref the new Dehlers, I agree. As you know we looked at a couple of Hanses before we bought the Malo and the interiors really disppointed me. Then we looked at two new Hanse at the Sydney show and they did nothing for me. Awful things, particularly the new 495. That was really (for me) horrible).
I went on board a Dehler 45 a couple of years back and if I had the money I would have bought that boat then and there. Beautiful thing, superb fitout, all good. Now, just a slightly up market Hanse. Sad.
Cheers
Andrew
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  #1365  
Old 09-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Wild, original design. It strongly reminds me of the interior of Discovery I, the Jupiter spacecraft in 2001, A Space Odyssey.

It might be very nice in El Caribe or other hot climes but I think I still prefer teak or cherry & brass.
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  #1366  
Old 09-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Wild, original design. It strongly reminds me of the interior of Discovery I, the Jupiter spacecraft in 2001, A Space Odyssey.

It might be very nice in El Caribe or other hot climes but I think I still prefer teak or cherry & brass.
Yes I agree with you regarding the Star wars ambiance. I could not live there comfortably. The Draft limitations also will put restrictions regarding cruising.

But I would not mind to live in the Ourson Rapide, a similar boat designed by Jean Mary Finot for a rich and lucky guy. The boat has the same pedigree (Open 60) but is a less bit radical. It is all carbon, has liquid ballasts but instead of a canting keel has a lifting keel that permits the boat to have a "normal" draft while on anchor or at the marina.

Take a look at the polar speeds:



It is enough for you?

And about the interior?







This boat is designed to be solo sailed by an experienced sailor or to be solo sailed by a "normal" couple.

Isn't it beautiful?



















Ourson Rapide | finot-conq architectes navals

Regards

Paulo
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  #1367  
Old 09-01-2011
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My God, you are a lucky guy...I mean if you are not joking

I would take the Oyster out of that list (not fast enough) and I could add plenty boats but you have to explain better what you mean by fast. The JP54 is very fast but would rate very badly in regatta racing. That one is intended to cross oceans fast with a very small crew. There are others with the same program.

The Swan 80 or the X 65 are a completely different beasts and they are boats that will rate well but will need a full crew to be sailed fast.

Tell me between these two types what is the one that is more adapted to the program your friend want and I will post some suggestions. Meanwhile have a look at this post:



Regards

Paulo
Paulo, luckily for me, I'm not joking on this one...which is rare. We'll see what happens in the end, but he's got the means to do it if he sees what he wants.

In that regard, as you might imagine, he wants it all. So I'm trying to help him narrow down some options that will work for him. He definitely wants fast. And he'll probably want to dabble in regattas (and will have no trouble securing crew for them). But, he also wants something very cool and luxurious as well (i.e. - not a balls-out, stripped down racer). So it's got to be that mix.

From his perspective, the best example of this mix I can give you at this point is his favorite private jet: Challenger CL60. Very fast jet, but really luxe on the interior (white leather seats, white carpet, dark woods, etc.). He wants a boat like that.

Knowing his sense of style (European Modernist), I think he'll love everything about the JP54. And though I really like that boat, I think it's too limited based on what he wants - and will give him your additional feedback above.

The Oyster was in the mix purely because of its more "opulent" interior - to offer a counter to the more modern, simpler interiors of the Swan and the X (which he likes better anyway).

Finally, though he could go with a custom design (like the Ourson which I'll show him - thanks for that), I think he really wants to stick with a series brand for his first boat.

So let me know if you have other boats that fit this genre. I've looked at the Luffe, and a couple others you mentioned above, but hadn't really looked at the Grand Soleil. That could definitely work. Is the 72' in production? What are some of the Italian boats that you think are comparable in this range?
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 09-01-2011 at 10:30 AM.
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  #1368  
Old 09-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
...

In that regard, as you might imagine, he wants it all. So I'm trying to help him narrow down some options that will work for him. He definitely wants fast. And he'll probably want to dabble in regattas (and will have no trouble securing crew for them). But, he also wants something very cool and luxurious as well (i.e. - not a balls-out, stripped down racer). So it's got to be that mix.

...

Knowing his sense of style (European Modernist), ...

....
You make it too easy. If what he wants is fast, top European modern design, top prestige, style and has the money for it the boat he is looking for is a Wally. That's what the really rich guys with good taste are buying....well, I don't know if he is that rich If not I can post less expensive options later.

Take a look at the Esence:






























and some other Wallies:













Wally Yachts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wally

Regards

Paulo
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  #1369  
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Bingo!! That's exactly the kind of thing he'll like!

Man you're good!
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Old 09-01-2011
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Holy smokes, that's gorgeous. Think they'll build me one in exchange for my left arm?
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