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  #1471  
Old 10-06-2011
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New boat to hit the water, the absolutely gorgeous Ionic 48 performance cruiser.

Some years back they have lunched a 39ft that have got the attention of the media and from all that like beautiful and fast cruisers, but I always felt that the interior was less then perfect even following the Zen concept.

I find this one a lot better, almost perfect, I mean technically speaking about design even if for me would not fit, I mean the Zen concept in Design.

This Belgium boat is designed by by Pierre Lallemand (interior and concept) in co-operation with Joubert-Nivelt (NA).

The boat is made using vacuum infusing techniques using epoxy resin – a mix of GRP, Airex foams and carbon and that, with that kind of Zen oriented design, permits an incredible weight for a 48ft boat: 11T

Nothing special you would say, well yes, if this boat had a "normal" Ballast Displacement ratio (about 30%), but that is not the case. This boat has a very unusual high B/D ratio: 50% and that will make it an incredible stiff boat, a boat full of power specially because the boat is not particularly narrow, with a beam of 4.26 m and above all because that ballast is deep on a bulb at end of a long keel (2.70m).

Considering this characteristics and with 131 sq m of sail, this boat should really go fast and be very seaworthy.

A racer would you say? No, it has a big fresh water tank (600L) and a smaller diesel one (200L) but I guess this one will not need to waste much fuel.

An incredible sailboat. I would love to try it




















They say about it:

"The designers of the IONIC 48 have given priority to performance, manoeuvrability and functionality.


The Ionic48’s sleek hull shape, flush decks and discrete toe-rails lend her an elegance that set her apart from other yachts.

Flush deck hatches, running rigging discretely routed under the coach roof and retractable blocks and cleats all contribute to the sleek, uncluttered decks. Aesthetics and safety go hand in hand enabling crew to move about easily and in security.

Each Ionic48 is unique; custom built to the detailed specifications of her owner. Rediscover the pleasure of sailing without compromise onboard these exclusive yachts.

The IONIC 48 is designed for exceptional boat handling: She is light on the helm and easy to manoeuvre single handed."

Last edited by PCP; 10-06-2011 at 02:04 PM.
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  #1472  
Old 10-06-2011
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Pogo 50

Update on the Pogo 50:

Some notes by its designers (Finit/Conq):

Like its siblings in the Pogo range, the Pogo 50 is tailored for fast cruising : it is light, wide, and features a deep (lifting !) draft and generous sail area. Its speed and its seaworthiness put far, far away shores within reach ! Its shallow draft, once the keel is up, allows access to all little paradisiac coves. Its lean deck plan and large cockpit make it the ideal boat at the mooring.

Its interiors, like the other yachts from the Structures shipyard, remain simple and light. They are functionnal and usable at sea. Furthermore, they are adapted to the standing expected from a yacht of that size.


That last sentence means that the interiors of the Pogo 50 will be a lot better than the ones of the Pogo 12.50. And the drawings confirm that. The boat even has doors on the cabins Seriously, the interiors look a lot better than on the smaller boats. Let's see how they will look on the real photos.

















The technical characteristics of this boat are quite impressive:

LOA 15.25m
Beam 5.16m
Draft 3.50m / 1.50m lifting
Displacement 8.5t
Upwind sail area 165m2
Downwind sail area 280m2
Materials Glass - Polyester - SAN foam

How, 165m2 for 8.5T!!!! this cruiser is going to be a rocket but I guess it would also be a handful to tame with all that sail. Certainly not for a beginner and I would say that for sailing it solo you would need to be a very good sailor...but this one makes me dream...a Pogo with a decent interior
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  #1473  
Old 10-07-2011
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Great movie from the Chicago Match race that was raced with gale force winds:

Chicago Match Cup Wrap-Up - YouTube

Chicago Match Cup Day 4 Highlights - YouTube

On the final the Australians beat the French and for last podium place, the Kiwis beat the Portuguese. All final races were very intense.

Chicago Match Cup Wrap-Up - YouTube
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  #1474  
Old 10-07-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Update on the Pogo 50:

How, 165m2 for 8.5T!!!! this cruiser is going to be a rocket but I guess it would also be a handful to tame with all that sail. Certainly not for a beginner and I would say that for sailing it solo you would need to be a very good sailor...but this one makes me dream...a Pogo with a decent interior
I was in Combrit last week and saw the first Pogo 50 hull being prepared for infusion. Quite impressive indeed!

But as I understand the very lightweight design means that even this impressive sailplan is quite easy to handle because the strains are much less than on a heavy displacement yacht.

I hope you agree Paulo, because otherwise even our 12.50 will be a handful!

Best regards,

Eric
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  #1475  
Old 10-08-2011
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Hi Erik,
My experience in what regards Pogo is virtually about what I have read or heard about it, but I have heard and read a lot. iThe problem with a fast 40ft or 42ft performance cruiser is not an exclusive of Pogo. they have advantages (big stability) but also some disadvantages.

I have read many times that handing solo a class40 is a thing for very good sailors, sailors that have normally passed first by the mini class racers and that we can consider exceptionally good sailors.

The Pogo 12.50 is a down tuned class 40, it has a bit more weight, less sail but also less stability. I think that handing alone a Pogo 12.50 is also a task for a good sailor. Of course I am not talking about coastal cruising where you can chose the weather but about ocean crossing oceans and sailing with heavy seas and strong winds.

The main problem has to do with sails and managing them and also with the low mass of the boat. You are right saying that the Pogo, because it is light would need less sail that many other performance cruisers but that is not always the case because Pogo carries more sail to be fast. It's upwind sail are 100 sqm and if we compare with the new Dheler 41, we will see that the Dehler has only 92sq m, while others like the Salona 41 have 112m2 (and the Salona is the one that carries more sail).

But you have to put that sail area in correspondence with the righting moment and the mass of the boat and while I believe that the righting moment is similar, the mass is not: the Pogo weights 5,6T while the Dehler weights 8.1T and the Salona weights 7.2T.

This would make the Pogo a much more "nervous" boat and a boat more difficult to handle, one with more fast movements on heavy seas or even reacting faster to a sudden gust of wind.

Another problem with a big main is that probably you will not be able to reach the point where the halyard meets the mainsail (to pull it up) without the help of some steps in the mast. Now imagine yourself alone mounting a storm sail upper on the mast with heavy seas.

But I think that you are going to use your boat on coastal cruising with your kids so these problems really don't concern you and as a boat for having fun, I don't doubt that is the best the market has to offer, in what regards cruising

Anyway I strongly advise you to have them mounting a really short third reef on the main and a removable stay sail (textile for not be noisy) with a small jib sail for it, preferably one that can be reefed and transformed in a storm sail, just in case







General dimensions
LOA 12.50m
Beam 4.50m
Draft 3.00m / 1.20m lifting
Displacement 5.6t
Keel 1.9t
Upwind sail area 100m2
Downwind sail area 210m2
Materials Glass - Polyester - PVC and SAN foam

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-08-2011 at 09:36 AM.
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  #1476  
Old 10-08-2011
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Thanks for this thorough analysis Paulo, which I think is very correct.

The skipper of an older Pogo 40 resumed it this way: “it sails just like a 470”. This is also what we felt when sailing the 10.50, which is probably a little less powerful but has very resembling characteristics.

I don’t think the handling of the sails themelves will be a big problem, because the boat is very light I expect quite acceptable loads on the sheets, comparable to smaller sails on a heavier boat. You’re right about the difficulty of reaching the mainsail top on larger boats, luckily this will not be the case on this one because the gooseneck is implanted very low on the mast (so low it does not even permit a classic downhaul to be fitted, see picture below).
And you very certainly are perfectly right about the need for a third, low reef, which is standard in the offer of the sail maker Incidences. The removable textile stay and reefable staysail have also been foreseen, the code 0 will be on a roller and the asymmetric spinnaker comes in a socket.

These boats are indeed very responsive and sometimes oversensitive, in stronger winds they behave somewhat like a dinghy instead of a displacement yacht. Since all of us are enthusiastic dinghy sailors (we will keep our Laser and 470), this is what we were looking for. I’m very happy you agree that we made the right choice in this perspective.
Because of this particular, nervous behavior only NKE or B&G are proposed as autopilots. But they seem to work very well, even in difficult conditions.

You are also right we should be aware of the consequences in heavy wind and seas, when we must expect to be working much harder than on more traditional designs. I expect e.g. beating upwind can become quite uncomfortable and this means longer passages will have to be planned with very careful attention to weather forecasts. As the above-mentioned class 40 skipper stated: “my destination is mostly where the wind blows to”. Of course this will not work all the time but since the upwind performance is not even that bad, we’ll cope with it.

And we will certainly also follow your advise concerning sailing singlehanded: this will certainly be done but only in good weather conditions and coastal cruising mode!

Best regards,

Eric
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  #1477  
Old 10-08-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
Thanks for this thorough analysis Paulo, which I think is very correct.

... You’re right about the difficulty of reaching the mainsail top on larger boats, luckily this will not be the case on this one because the gooseneck is implanted very low on the mast (so low it does not even permit a classic downhaul to be fitted, see picture below).
And you very certainly are perfectly right about the need for a third, low reef, which is standard in the offer of the sail maker Incidences. ...
Eric,
Thanks for the too generous comments about my knowledge. I am still learning...

Yes I can see that you are right on both counts. I can see the third reef on that mainsail, a very rare thing in today's production boats as I can see that you are a lucky guy with that boom and gooseneck. I assume that is the normal boom position and that the boom is inclined to the bow.

Unfortunately that is not the case with most of the boats with 40ft and up, specially the fast ones that have mainsails with more than 90sqm. On the majority you can only reach the top of the mainsail using a step or two on the mast.

I don't understand why this mast is not more used by boat manufacturers on boats with 40ft and bigger:





Maybe it is more expensive. It looks expensive but look how easy is would be to handle the mainsail and eventually mounting a storm sail!

Regards

Paulo
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Paulo,

I hope you're right, if it is more expensive to build I have an extra good reason for the price of this boat .

May be there are a few more drawbacks.
Since there is no sufficient room left below the boom to fit a traditional downhaul, until a close reach the shape of the mainsail can only be controlled by a powerful traveller. Bearing down further, we will need to fit the downhaul between the boom and the toerail, that will need adjustment together with the sheet and to be moved to the other side with every gibe. A quite racy and not very practical arrangement, but that will also serve as an efficient gibe preventer. This is demonstrated at the end of the video presentation of Voiles & Voiliers Voiles et Voiliers : Chantier - Grand Pavois : présentation du Pogo 12,50.

Additionally, although the boom rises backwards, it still comes somewhat lower over the cockpit, with less headroom than most cruisers probably would like. On the other hand, this also lowers the sailplan which is good for performance.

Once again, it's all about making well informed choices and what we consider being an advantage may be inacceptable for many others...

Best regards,

Eric
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  #1479  
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Paulo, you mean the boom vang?

Last edited by HMoll; 10-09-2011 at 08:17 AM.
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The Salona 37 won again.

Well maybe I am a bit partial about Salona because I am really interested in the 38 even if I have not taken the final decision but it seems amazing to me that the 37 that had already gone out of production (substituted by the 38) continues winning races and championships.

Normally you take a cruiser racer out of production when it stops winning races. That seems not to be the case with Salona.

I had already posted about a Salona 37 that had won the ORCI 2011 European Championship, now I have heard that a Salona 37 had won the Dutch championship and also the Henry Loyd Race In Finnland beating the Nordic boats.

No, it was not the same boat but three different boats
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