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  #1491  
Old 10-11-2011
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Salona 38

Well, sorry it took so long Paulo, but there is a link to Bob;s review of the Salona. I'm positive there will be some difference of opinion.....but, I have also never seen Bob willing to NOT debate plus or minus's from reasonable arguing folks!

Enjoy
Marty
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  #1492  
Old 10-12-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Salona 38

Well, sorry it took so long Paulo, but there is a link to Bob;s review of the Salona. I'm positive there will be some difference of opinion.....but, I have also never seen Bob willing to NOT debate plus or minus's from reasonable arguing folks!

Enjoy
Marty
Thanks Marty,

But you are wrong about that difference in opinion, at most a difference in terminology.

The only thing I do not agree is with this description: "The boat is pretty beamy with an L/B of 3.17" but as I have explained on the post about his review of the Salona 37, this is only a matter of perspective: He is looking probably under its own perspective, I am looking under the perspective of modern performance boats that are designed today and are in the market. Under that perspective the boat has a moderate beam, meaning an average one.

As I have said most of the review is a boat description and besides as Bob Perry says, he never saw a Salona, while I have visited the shipyard two times, been inside many Salonas, sailed several including the 38 that he is reviewing.

But I agree with all he is saying out of that difference in terminology:

"It’s interesting that given similar markets different designers and builders come up with totally different boats. Catalina has its approach and the Salona Yachts group from Croatia has its own, and the two boats are an interesting study in contrast... The SA/D is 20.32, so while this boat is promoted as more of a cruiser than a racer there is sufficient sail area to give the boat good light air speed compared to the Catalina’s SA/D of 15.9.

...The deck design features a big cockpit open at the transom... I like the relatively short cabintrunk but while it looks good it is going to take a chunk out of headroom forward....

Apart from those options the layouts are very ordinary looking on paper but they appear comfortable and functional. I have never seen a Salona in person so I have no idea what its finishing details are like.

One of the interesting aspects of this design is that it uses a stainless steel framework in the bilge to take the keel and rig loads. This includes a hefty looking large U-shaped channel piece for longitudinal loads and steel floors spreading out from the center channel. Carbon fiber layers are added to this framework “to obtain equilibrium of stainless steel structure and inner liner attached to it.” The brochure also says the “slamming zone” is built with a single skin “in order to avoid shear failure of the core material under heavy loads.”

There is a lot of competition in this size range. To catch the market’s eye designers need to come up with something different. I don’t see much here that is different. I’m sure it is a very nice boat and I’m certain it will perform well."


I agree with all this. The boat is not revolutionary, it comes as an evolution of the tradition (like the new Grand Soleil 39) it is just an improvement of the previous Salona 37. That does not mean that it is not a good boat, the Salona 37 was already a good fast cruiser boat and also a race winner.

On the boat description Bob Perry says: "The entry is fine and the overhangs are minimal. There is a lot of rocker in the ends of this boat. Look how the canoe body kicks up at the stern".

And I agree and that is one of the things that I like on this boat. Both things mean a more comfortable wave passage, specially upwind and more noticeably with bad weather.

Sure there are lots of medium displacement boats with more rocker and that would even be softer in what regards slamming, but I am not interested in slow boats, specially in light air and this one offer an interesting compromise among performance boats.

There is one thing that Bob Perry did not mention and that is very important in what regards almost everybody: Price.

Sure there are lots of good boats around that could be compared with the Salona 38: the XP 38, the Grand Soleil 39, the Elan 38, the Comet 38, the Sydney GTS 37, the Finngulf 37, The Arcona 37 and many more, but from all those the only ones I can afford are the Elan 38 and the Salona 38.

I prefer the Salona for a number of reasons but the most important of them is that I just like more the Salona and besides that the Guys from Salona allow me to customize the boat in a way that only much more expensive semi custom boats normally do and that is very important for me.

















Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-13-2011 at 07:24 AM.
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  #1493  
Old 10-12-2011
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Paulo,

I can buy all what you said. Some agreement, yet the differences are minor but there, ie terminology ones as you describe.

Hopefully you get the boat at some point in time. Or is it ordered and on they way and I have not read that?

Marty
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  #1494  
Old 10-12-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

I can buy all what you said. Some agreement, yet the differences are minor but there, ie terminology ones as you describe.

Hopefully you get the boat at some point in time. Or is it ordered and on they way and I have not read that?

Marty
Marty, I guess you have missed it


Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
....
I am talking with the guys of Salona about the possibility of having a 38 with a modified keel (torpedo keel with more 250/300Kg) and a bowsprit that include a roller and a stand for the anchor, that and some minor but important (at least to me) mods that don't come on the options and of course, all that without making the boat prohibitively expensive and I hope they can warranty me that it will come with a decent interior.

We will see. I will take a decision at the Paris boat show were they will be with the new 38.

Meanwhile take a look at the cockpit in its standard version (without teak on the floor). that is the one I prefer. It is a big cockpit with all the winches well positioned. I prefer it with the back bench that closes the cockpit and provide additional seating (not in the photo).





Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-12-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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  #1495  
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Hey Marty, I have one boat for you... and for all that like smaller cruising boats. It is a kind of smaller RM, with 30ft and it is raising a lot of curiosity in France, the Samba 30:








Like the RM is made with marine plywood and epoxy and it can have a twin keel or a mono keel:

Technical characteristiques

LOA 8,95 m
Beam 3,40 m
engine 13 cv In board, 20cv option
Matériau CP / Epoxy
Inside height 2m /1,85m.

Architecte Pierre Delion

Mono keel
Draft 1,80 m
Displacement 3200 Kg
Ballast 1000 Kg
Sail Area 52,5 m²

Twin Keel
Draft 1,50 m
Displacement 3400 Kg
Ballast 2 x 600 Kg
Sail Area 48 m²

The boat cost about 75 000€ but can be bought in kit to make it in the garage

more here:

http://www.venetes.fr/FR/boats/voili...mba305-doc.pdf

Bateaux voile proposs par le Chantier Naval des Vntes

Take a look at the photos of the building of the first one:











Picasa Web Albums - Pascal MASSON - Samba305-Cons...



If you like it even smaller, take a look at their 23.5ft. It also looks great, with a real head and all:













http://www.venetes.fr/FR/boats/voili...mba235-doc.pdf

Bateaux voile proposs par le Chantier Naval des Vntes

Last edited by PCP; 10-12-2011 at 06:11 PM.
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  #1496  
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Beautiful isn't? That's a Farr 400 and they have released a nice promotional video:

Farr 400 promo youtube 2.mp4 - YouTube

And an even most interesting one: What happens when a Soto 40 meets a Farr 400?

soto40 vs farr 400 - YouTube
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  #1497  
Old 10-13-2011
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Have you heard about Cobra 33? Maybe not, I would say probably not That's an unusual boat:

Have a look:
















Take a look at the interior here:

RUFI - COBRA 33 - Produkcja jachtw ...................................

And a movie (Solo Vela test sail):

Cobra 33 - La prova in mare di SoloVela - YouTube


It is a nice boat. To be really nice that interior is begging for some port hulls but they seem to have the right place for it and it should not be difficult to have them.

Yes it is a nice boat, but it seems very similar to some Croatian and Italian fast boats, what has this one that makes it unusual?: PRICE. This beauty costs only a bit over 80 000€

This is a Polish boat, made in a shipyard that had experience building smaller boats and its designed by Andrej Skrzat, a good Polish NA that is most known to design the Delphia line:

ANDRZEJ SKRZAT - COBRA 33

The shipyard is named Rufi:

.: RUFI :. Czartery i Produkcja JACHTW - ZAPRASZAMY NA MAZURY ............................................

RUFI - COBRA 33 - Produkcja jachtw ...................................

Technical characteristics:

Length
9,93 m
Beam
3,33 m
Draft 2,05 m Weight 4,18 t Ballast 1,13 t

Main sail 34,80 m2 Genoa 26,30 m2 CE Category A/STIX 35,8

Last edited by PCP; 10-13-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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  #1498  
Old 10-13-2011
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Some great images of that "bathtub" that goes fast (second on the first leg of the Mini Transat):

TeamWork - Pornichet - YouTube


Well, certainly it goes fast....but is one of the ugliest boats I have ever saw
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Old 10-13-2011
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We have already talked here about the MOD70, the one design multihull top class. First race: Just look at these images

MOD70 KRYS MATCH Best Of : ultimate victory going to the MOD70 Race for Water! - YouTube

Best of KRYS MATCH MOD70 in la Trinité sur Mer - Day1 - YouTube
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Old 10-13-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Some great images of that "bathtub" that goes fast (second on the first leg of the Mini Transat):

TeamWork - Pornichet - YouTube


Well, certainly it goes fast....but is one of the ugliest boats I have ever saw
They do go fast!
I like one video particularly, not only because of the performance of these tiny little racing boats (and the beautiful smile of Elodie Riou ), but may be even more for the wonderful piano music of Yann Tiersen. De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum, so I only hope you enjoy this as much as I do: Pogo 2 Videos.
But now I might be getting way out off thread…

When hearing about this race in the late seventies, crossing the Atlantic singlehanded and in what looks less more than a bathtub, I considered this a completely crazy project that should be forbidden immediately . Meanwhile it has become one of the best breeding yards for successful offshore racing skippers.

The n°747 “Magnum” TeamWork is indeed one of the ugliest sailing boats on earth, but it won the last edition of the Trangascongne race and is now ranked third in the prototype category after the first leg of the 6.50 Transat. Paulo has already discussed this concept and it seems the additional form stability and planing capacities outweigh the disadvantages of this very unusual and especially ugly bow.

I wonder if this will ever grow through to the bigger racing scene, or even to cruising designs. Together with the Dynamic Stability System, which Paulo first commented on this thread and also looks quite promising (and much more sexy ).

Best regards,

Eric
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