Interesting Sailboats

[JAndersB]

A small remark.

In the last issue of german Yacht there is an article about chartering from out of Marseille. The boat they are chartering is an Wauquiez Opium 39 and it is the first time I read an article about chartering where the text is more about the boat than the trip. Among other things the crew refused to stop for bathing in some nice bays and instead wanted to continue sailing, but concluded that it will mean some long beatings going back. Article ended with a conlusion that the beating back was also a joy at 8,5 knots.

I can only agree as owner of hull #11.

Regards,
Anders

[PCP]

Originally Posted by bb74

That's some serious company there PCP! Looks like a nice place. Haven't been there but will head out to Corsica for 2 weeks on a SO 36i saturday and it looks like the weather will suit us well. I know, not a rocket, but the boat looks clean in Ajaccio and the Pogo guys in the Med only rent with a skipper....

Next time either Baleares or Croatia with friends, then family for a 10-14 day cruise - I'm thinking Croatia first, then Baléares....?

Keep us posted on the Salona. I'm heading to Structures end September to sea trial the 10.50 and see what it's like under sail. Checkbook in hand...

Sorry about the late reply, I just arrived from Croatia.

I have been two weeks sailing on the Balearic Islands and one week in Croatia. Now that I can compare both cruising grounds at the same time I will tell you: go to Croatia.

I have been on Maiorca and Minorca. Minorca used to be our favorite but we have found it with crowded anchorages and plenty of big motor boats and of course with the same weather instability as usual (he got 35K on the Minorca channel when they have forecast 20K).

Now that I have been twice on Croatia I find that the Bora threat is mostly just a threat in what regards summer and that you have so many anchorages that you can find plenty of space with boats far more apart than in Balearic Islands or Corsica. On a week I have been twice the only boat on the cove. Even without wind, after noon you have always some geothermic wind that with a fast boat will be more than enough to have fun

Regarding charter boats I would say that the way to go in Croatia is directly to the builder (Salona) or to the importers (Beneteau, Dufour, Elan). They all run side charter business with almost new boats and they have some fast boats, some even equipped with performance equipment. I have charted a brand new Salona 41 and saw in Kastella marina some very nice boats, new boats on charter: First 45, First 35, Salona 44, Salona 34, Salona 41. I know that Dufour also has some performance boats in another marina and I am sure that Elan too, even if those that I saw in Kastella were some years older.

Regarding Croatia, in some time they will have a brand new 38 on charter and I will tell you that the boat deserves to be sailed and experienced. I sailed one just before they send it to the Cannes boat show and the boat is not only fast but has lots of storage and a great interior. If you say that you are eventually interested in the boat, and that would not be a lie because that boat could be an option to the Pogo 10.50, they will make you a big discount on the charter (you have to talk first with the shipyard).

Final note: Don't be afraid of chartering a boat with a big draft. Mine had 2.7m and I was a bit concerned about limitations on anchorage. That is not a problem at all there. Better be concerned about the chain length and cable rode: There you anchor between 5 and 12 m....really close to the shore

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by MikeWhy

Hunter's arch mounted traveller deserves at least passing mention in this context.

Well, a bit late for me to reply...(I was away) but yes you are right. Arch mounted travelers are also to be considered as a different type. The first ones I saw were on Malos that use them for several decades and now many boats including Hunters and Benetaus use them.

I cannot speak for them because I have never used one but if well made it seems that they could be a good option for the short crew in what regards the use from the steering wheel place.

The line system has to be a bit complicated and probably with a bit friction but they can be used while sailing with a big bimini and that is a big plus. However if the lines get jammed on top with the bimini on it seems that would not be easy to get there to clear things away.

Someone has experience with them?

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by bjung

If you check , you will find the Swedestar is actually less expensive then X -Yachts and Luffe. The Dragonfly is not ocean worthy enough to be in that company, a lake sailor.
.....

I would not call the Dragonfly 35 a lake sailor. They are stronger than the Corsair and I have already see a C27 that had circumnavigated. The Dragonflies are used mostly on Oceans and many well offshore. There was one for sail on the Caribbeans (sold quickly).

Like all good fast and demanding boats I would say they are a sailor's boat.

Well crewed it will go anywhere (even solo) but they will not be as forgiving as an Halberg-Rassy and should not be put in the hands of inexperienced sailors, at least offshore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Deli...ure=grec_index

That's a smaller one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3knz...eature=related

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

As I was in Croatia for chartering a boat I pick the opportunity to went (again) at the Salona shipyard to have a look at the new 38. I will post some photos and comments about it specially because I was lucky and could pick a test sail on the water (it was booked for some Italian clients and I went along with them).

For the ones that don't know the Salona shipyard is in Solin that today is just a continuation of Split. Salona was a Roman city (today Solin) and the boat name is a tribute to that city.

The Salona 38 is a nice and sleek boat:











And is made with care by enthusiastic people. Last time I met and talked with the shipyard director and the resident architect (on holidays this time), this time I met Nenad, the Sales director (I had already met him on boat shows and exchanged some emails). Nenad is much more than a Sales director and is all the time thinking in ways to improve the boats and since it is the one that has more contact with the buyers, that are most of the time experienced sailors, he listen to what they have to say so he has always a handful of good ideas on the verge of becoming reality.

Funny thing, if you talk with the guys from Bennetau or Jeanneau they will take a lot of work explaining why the things you want cannot be made. On Salona they hear you with attention and if you make sense they just end up doing what you want and improving the boat.

Some pictures of the test sail and I start with this one taken when we were going out of marina Kastela: Do you recognize the boat on the background?



Yes, it is the Wally!!! We were waiting for him to open up the engines (16,800hp) to see it flying at 60K but it seems that the crisis have reached everybody and they have not the budget for fuel (that thing at speed wastes as much as a commercial jet).

The 118 WallyPower - a fast pleasure Yacht Onboard with OPC

Wally

Some more photos:









About the test sail it was very impressive in what regards sailing without almost no wind and that is one of the reasons I want a Salona. There were virtually no wind but the girl that come with us (a regatta sailor) just motored some 2 miles in direction of the Islands in front and soon we had some weak thermic wind: 2 to 4.5K and that is enough to glide 1K over wind speed.

We had good sails ( the optional cruising carbon sails that you can see on a previous post - same boat) but did not even had a genoa, just a small front gib. Best speed approached 6K and that was truly remarkable for the conditions. Most of the time we were between 4 and 5.5K. With a code 0 we would be sailing well over 6K. That was what I was expecting but sometimes you get disappointed...not this time

Regarding the other boat characteristics I would say that the most remarkable is the size of the central storage space (between the wheels). Trully outstanding. I believe that you can put there the big six fenders and still have space. That gives two more side lockers on the outside and a dedicated gas storage space for two bottles. That is enough for me in what regards outside storage and I could have the three cabin version if the head was not so small. Well I am a big guy, perhaps a smaller guy could live with that but not me).

The lateral passage space is good and the boat was equipped with very good hardware that really worked well. The winch for the main is really near the wheel and that makes the boat easy to sail solo.

The interior quality has improved as well as the storage spaces that are very well detailed. They have a very nice teak option that with the port hulls give it a very nice ambiance. They also have an optional second cooler (a vertical one) that we have tried on the 41 and that contrary to what I expected is a very good idea: You can control better your electric consumption (one or two working) and the little one is much more cooler than the big one making it ideal for really cold beer. It has also a small freezer that can take some fish or meat.









Normally the boats look better in the pictures but I have to say that with this one is just the opposite. I really liked what I saw, including the strong interior stainless still structure and I am very tempted for this boat.

I had asked for some minor alterations and they really try to comply with the client needs. I have asked for a big one, that makes a lot of sense to me, specially in a 38ft cruising boat that will be sailed solo offshore: more ballast and a different keel, one not designed to beat handicaps but for efficiency.

Basically I want a true torpedo keel on the end of a narrow keel and about more 250kg/300kg of ballast. The extra ballast is basically to dispense with the guys on the rail and to make it stiffer and more able to carry sail with stronger winds without reefing. If they can make that without increasing the price too much, I think this will be the one.

I will know about that soon.

Paulo

[Chimbatete]

Hi Paulo,

Just went to my first boat show. Loved the SO409, what a boat!. It had a sail away price of $250k. I looked at the First 30 ($150k) and it was great boat as well. Only thing is it didnt have a backstay. There was also a Hanse dealer which had the 400 ($250k) on display and he was almost insinuating that it was a better boat than the 409He mentioned the chines of the 409 as silly since its not a planing boat.

Another question, why is the Opium 39 selling at $350k almost the same price as a 2010 Luffe 4004 with the carbon mast ($400k). Is the Opium that good?

How does it compare to the X's, Elans and Salona 38 for example? I'm talking about quality boat for boat not downwind vs. upwind.

BTW that Salona 38 looks awesome. Whats the price on that?

Chuck

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Chimbatete

Hi Paulo,

Just went to my first boat show. Loved the SO409, what a boat!. It had a sail away price of $250k. I looked at the First 30 ($150k) and it was great boat as well. Only thing is it didnt have a backstay. There was also a Hanse dealer which had the 400 ($250k) on display and he was almost insinuating that it was a better boat than the 409He mentioned the chines of the 409 as silly since its not a planing boat.

Another question, why is the Opium 39 selling at $350k almost the same price as a 2010 Luffe 4004 with the carbon mast ($400k). Is the Opium that good?

How does it compare to the X's, Elans and Salona 38 for example? I'm talking about quality boat for boat not downwind vs. upwind.

BTW that Salona 38 looks awesome. Whats the price on that?

Chuck

Hi Chimbatete,

It seems you do really like boats

Yes boat shows are great for the ones that love boats even when they don't have money to buy them right now. If you ever get the chance go to Dusseldorf, that's the Mecca of sailboats and also a nice place to have a look at central Europe.

So many questions. Yes the Opium is a Wauquiez and they were for many years the top range of the Benetau group, a kind of a Lexus to Nissan. Yes the Opium is a great boat and the quality is better than Benetau, Jeanneau, Hanse, Bavaria probably comparable to Dehler.

There is something wrong with your prices, a Carbon mast Luffe 4004 will cost more than what you say. Here you have an used one without carbon mast almost by that price:

For Sale. Luffe (DK) Luffe 40.04 TOP - Rostock Baltic Sea, Germany - 3126320

I believe the Jeanneau 409 is a better boat than the Hanse 400, not in quality (similar) but by design. I bet Hanse is going to substitute the 400 this year.

Regarding X yachts, Salona and Elan I would say that the X yachts by price and interior quality are competing with Luffe, Arcona, Finngulf not with Salona or Elan. However there are a lot of guys that had X yachts and are buying Salonas. They are less expensive have much improved the interior and share with X yachts (and Luffe) an interior steel frame to take the efforts from the keel and shrouds (now it seems that X yachts is using a carbon frame).

The Elan are great boats and the design is very good (350) are well built but for what I have saw in the new Salona 41 that I have charted, the Salona interior is now a bit better and I would prefer the safety of the Salona stainless steel frame. But Elan and Salona are really on the same market building boats that in my opinion are a bit better than mass production boats.

Another difference with Salona is that they allow a certain amount of boat customization and that is very rare in boats with this price and only possible because Salona is still a small company. Salonas will cost about the same as Elans, about 20% less than a Dehler and about 20% more than a First.

Final note: The First 30 is a great boat and it has no backstay because it is designed that way and don't need one. Some other performance boats like the Pogo don't also have them.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

I had already said that I didn't like the drawings for the Dehler 41 interior. They seemed to be designed by the team that designs the Hanse (Dehler belongs now to Hanse) and they are far away in quality from the best Italian and French interior designers.



Well, my fears were confirmed, they finally posted the photos from the interior (a looong way after they have posted the outside photos), they changed some things regarding the drawings but the interior is still very poor, dark, Hanse like and unimaginative. To put things even worse they have hull portlights on the cabins but not on the saloon. That makes no sense at all and contributes to that gloomy interior. The mast is almost on the middle of the saloon. If they really need the mast there they should have gone for another type of mast, I mean deck stepped, except on racing boats were the interior does not matter so much.









A sad story: How to ruin a very nice sailing boat with a really bad interior. I had some months back a good offer to buy a Hanse 41 when the boat was still in the making....Jesus, I am happy to have gone another way

They had lowered the prices of the 41, comparing with the 39 but the interior seems to be of lower quality and mainly the interior design sucks!!!

A bad move to have the interior designed by the Hanse team. The best French and Italian designers are so much better that makes no sense to stay with the home team. They need a good interior designer and they needed it quickly.

Regards

Paulo

[smackdaddy]

Hey PCP - a while back you highlighted a cruising boat that a racer had designed...along the lines of the Open style. It had a crazy rotating nav station. What boat was that?

[JAndersB]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Hey PCP - a while back you highlighted a cruising boat that a racer had designed...along the lines of the Open style. It had a crazy rotating nav station. What boat was that?

It was this, I guess:
http://www.jpdick-yachts.com/index.php?lang=EN

Furthermore, I had a look at both the Dehler 41 and new Arcona 410 this last weekend at the open yard show at Hallberg-Rassy. I agree with you Paulo, the Dehler 41 did not give any nice vibrations. Furthermore, to lead the jib sheet through a bulls eye in the middle of the side deck, making at least a 40 degree bend without any roller bearings or block seems crazy to me. The Arcona did also feel "old fashion".

The Jeanneau 409, which I have seen before, still is a real show winner. With double rudders and a little bit of "performance" in her it would definitively be interesting.

Regarding pricing and Opium price I am still finding out all the time from my boat why it has a higher price. Arriwing back at home harbour I tried to close the toilet water intake. I had to follow the piping through the whole interior before I found it in the middle of the boat just behind the keel even if toilet is on the port sider in the front. This way it does not suck air on a beat. Full balsa hull and sandwich interior, oversized and plenty of deck gear, I still have a bag full of top of the line Harken gear that was left over, are other things that push the price up even if I agree that it is expensive.

Regards,
Anders