Interesting Sailboats

[tdw]

Paulo,
I was on a Salona 39 at the recent Sydney boat show and I confess the quality of the interior appointments disappointed me. Now the Sydney Boat Show is a piss poor event in the main. The usual suspects are there of course but there is very little beyond your typical production cruiser racer. I expected the Salona to stand out from the crowd. It didn't.

Cheers
Andrew

[PCP]

Originally Posted by tdw

Paulo,
I was on a Salona 39 at the recent Sydney boat show and I confess the quality of the interior appointments disappointed me. Now the Sydney Boat Show is a piss poor event in the main. The usual suspects are there of course but there is very little beyond your typical production cruiser racer. I expected the Salona to stand out from the crowd. It didn't.

Cheers
Andrew

Andrews there is some confusion here: The Salona has not a 39. It has a 34 a 38 a 41 a 44 and it will have a 60.

Home - Salona Yachts

You could have seen an old 37 (I sailed the first 38 some days back in Croatia and the boat is going to Cannes boat show) or perhaps a 41?

Salona has a stupid politic in what regards boat shows: While all the others big brands show brand new boats Salona show demo boats that show some use and furthermore they don't put the boats in tip top shape, I mean regarding adjusting cabinet doors drawers, that sort of stuff furthermore and even more important while big companies have a very professional approach in what regards interior and exterior lighting of the boat (more lightening that the one used on the boat interior and outside projectors giving more interior illumination) they just present the boat with its own illumination and without having projectors helping. I don't need to tell you the importance of lightening on a boat presentation. Maybe they have not the means to do otherwise.

I have already noticed this on several boat shows and have even told them that they should improve the presentation of their boats on boat shows and improve lighting.

What I can tell you for sure is that I have charted last year a brand new Dufour 425 and this year a brand new Salona 41. The Dufour are the more expensive and better finished of all French mass production sail boats and I can tell you that without any doubt the Salona 41 was not only better finished but had also better quality material everywhere, I mean from the cabinet lockers to the door knobs. At least that is my opinion after sailing both boats for at least a week.

Regards

Paulo

[blt2ski]

Anders,

Funny thing about your comment re the 409 and a bit of performance. Three of us on the Jeanneau-owners.com forum site, were all saying a bit more power, ie about a meter taller mast, deeper keel or a iron/lead option, upgraded winches both on the deck and cabin top, with 2 sets of winches on the deck for HS and spins. Probably slightly deeper thinner rudders, 3 reef ability on the main to name a few things we all thought would be good to have, ie a super performance over the std P version, which really only has a folding prop, upgraded deck gear and spin option. If one is going to upgrade, lets do a serious UPGRADE to the PERFORMANCE of the boat!

I have not seen one yet.....there is a boat show in Seattle in a couple of weeks, hopefully will have a chance to gander at the 409 and 379.

marty

[PCP]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Hey PCP - a while back you highlighted a cruising boat that a racer had designed...along the lines of the Open style. It had a crazy rotating nav station. What boat was that?

Hey Smack, Anders is right, it is the JP 52. I posted about it on post 172 and I believe someone talked about the boat more recently.

Interesting Sailboats

Regards

Paulo

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by JAndersB

It was this, I guess:
http://www.jpdick-yachts.com/index.php?lang=EN

Furthermore, I had a look at both the Dehler 41 and new Arcona 410 this last weekend at the open yard show at Hallberg-Rassy. I agree with you Paulo, the Dehler 41 did not give any nice vibrations. Furthermore, to lead the jib sheet through a bulls eye in the middle of the side deck, making at least a 40 degree bend without any roller bearings or block seems crazy to me. The Arcona did also feel "old fashion".

The Jeanneau 409, which I have seen before, still is a real show winner. With double rudders and a little bit of "performance" in her it would definitively be interesting.

Regarding pricing and Opium price I am still finding out all the time from my boat why it has a higher price. Arriwing back at home harbour I tried to close the toilet water intake. I had to follow the piping through the whole interior before I found it in the middle of the boat just behind the keel even if toilet is on the port sider in the front. This way it does not suck air on a beat. Full balsa hull and sandwich interior, oversized and plenty of deck gear, I still have a bag full of top of the line Harken gear that was left over, are other things that push the price up even if I agree that it is expensive.

Regards,
Anders

That's it! Thanks Anders.

Okay, a question for you guys:

I have a client who's toying with the idea of buying a very big, very luxurious, very fast boat. (I got him hooked into sailing over the past year.) Here is the list I've given him:

1. JP54
2. X-Yachts 65
3. Oyster 82
4. Swan 80

Personally, my favorite is the Swan 80. I have to get this right because I'll be "helping him" sail it (along with a pro skipper and a few crew of course). No joke.

So what have I left off the list?

[PCP]

Originally Posted by blt2ski

Anders,

Funny thing about your comment re the 409 and a bit of performance. Three of us on the Jeanneau-owners.com forum site, were all saying a bit more power, ie about a meter taller mast, deeper keel or a iron/lead option, upgraded winches both on the deck and cabin top, with 2 sets of winches on the deck for HS and spins. Probably slightly deeper thinner rudders, 3 reef ability on the main to name a few things we all thought would be good to have, ie a super performance over the std P version, which really only has a folding prop, upgraded deck gear and spin option. If one is going to upgrade, lets do a serious UPGRADE to the PERFORMANCE of the boat!

I have not seen one yet.....there is a boat show in Seattle in a couple of weeks, hopefully will have a chance to gander at the 409 and 379.

marty

Marty, the problem with that is that it is expensive

The Jeanneau 409 on the performance version has already plenty of sail for its righting moment and I bet the boat will reef with not to much wind. To put more power on the boat (more sail) you have to increase righting moment and you can do that with a deeper keel and lead ballast or with lead and more ballast.

That is expensive but not as much as the hull reinforcements needed to take the extra stress. With all the other stuff you talk about (bigger winches, more winches) that would turn the 409 in an expensive boat. If Jeanneau does no do that is because they believe that they would not sell enough boats to make it profitable.

Anyway you could make it a better performance boat but not really a competitive cruiser-racer: The bow entries are just not fine enough to make it a upwind beast. The boat was designed to be a cruiser and on those the front cabin has precedence over top upwind performance.

Regards

Paulo

[blt2ski]

paulo,

For those of use with Jeanneau's, wanting to stay with jeanneau........ we can only hope!

RIght now, I have to admit, not sure I would buy a new one. Altho wife does like them, not sure I would. An X34 or 37, maybe a 35, or an Elan 350......to name a few. There was another a few pages back I really liked the evosion 35, but wife thought it was a bit plain on the interior.....

For those of use thinking of upgrading the 409, we assume it would add some to the bill!

Marty

[PCP]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

..

Okay, a question for you guys:

I have a client who's toying with the idea of buying a very big, very luxurious, very fast boat. (I got him hooked into sailing over the past year.) Here is the list I've given him:

1. JP54
2. X-Yachts 65
3. Oyster 82
4. Swan 80

Personally, my favorite is the Swan 80. I have to get this right because I'll be "helping him" sail it (along with a pro skipper and a few crew of course). No joke.

So what have I left off the list?

My God, you are a lucky guy...I mean if you are not joking

I would take the Oyster out of that list (not fast enough) and I could add plenty boats but you have to explain better what you mean by fast. The JP54 is very fast but would rate very badly in regatta racing. That one is intended to cross oceans fast with a very small crew. There are others with the same program.

The Swan 80 or the X 65 are a completely different beasts and they are boats that will rate well but will need a full crew to be sailed fast.

Tell me between these two types what is the one that is more adapted to the program your friend want and I will post some suggestions. Meanwhile have a look at this post:

Originally Posted by PCP

.....

Someone had said about this thread that it was full of beautiful boats that he could never had. Well, that's what happens with me regarding Italian sailing boats. They are generally expensive and very beautiful, almost always designed for fast cruising and great sailing performance. They should have already a place on this thread if their price didn't piss me so much. Well, not really the price, that is really what costs to built them, but the fact taht I would never own one

Let's rectify that with some images that will certainly impress you guys. At least they impress me: Ferraris, I tell you

Regards

Paulo

[tdw]

Originally Posted by PCP

Andrews there is some confusion here: The Salona has not a 39. It has a 34 a 38 a 41 a 44 and it will have a 60.

Home - Salona Yachts

You could have seen an old 37 (I sailed the first 38 some days back in Croatia and the boat is going to Cannes boat show) or perhaps a 41?

What I can tell you for sure is that I have charted last year a brand new Dufour 425 and this year a brand new Salona 41. The Dufour are the more expensive and better finished of all French mass production sail boats and I can tell you that without any doubt the Salona 41 was not only better finished but had also better quality material everywhere, I mean from the cabinet lockers to the door knobs. At least that is my opinion after sailing both boats for at least a week.

Regards

Paulo

Paulo,
Maybe a 41 then. I have the details at home, not here at the office.
Ref the new Dehlers, I agree. As you know we looked at a couple of Hanses before we bought the Malo and the interiors really disppointed me. Then we looked at two new Hanse at the Sydney show and they did nothing for me. Awful things, particularly the new 495. That was really (for me) horrible).
I went on board a Dehler 45 a couple of years back and if I had the money I would have bought that boat then and there. Beautiful thing, superb fitout, all good. Now, just a slightly up market Hanse. Sad.
Cheers
Andrew

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by JAndersB

It was this, I guess:
JP54, the fast cruising yacht - JPDICK yachts - JP54

Wild, original design. It strongly reminds me of the interior of Discovery I, the Jupiter spacecraft in 2001, A Space Odyssey.

It might be very nice in El Caribe or other hot climes but I think I still prefer teak or cherry & brass.