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  #1571  
Old 10-24-2011
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Wow that is a head turner. Thats dinghy slot is just the icing. I was at the website and it seems that for the basic boat its 100k so figure 150k euros ready to sail that is nice.
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  #1572  
Old 10-25-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
Some Solaris One 37 interior pictures. Indeed very nice boat. Any clue on price tag?
I have said that if somebody needs to ask the price it is not going to buy this boat

The price is just huge, 220500€ for the basic price with this specifications:

http://www.richardbaldwinyachts.com/...e-37-specs.pdf

The specifications are good but nothing special. If you buy a Salona 38 with the performance, comfort and basic package you will get a boat with higher specifications for almost less 50000€.

For superior specifications I mean: Same mast brand but higher range model (three spreaders), rod on the rig (option on the Solaris), Carbon spinnaker pole (on the Solaris even the aluminium one is optional), stainless steel grid to take the forces of the shrouds and keel (on the Solaris, reinforcements in e glass fiber), Epoxy based resins (Solaris resins are not epoxy), three blade folding propeller (2 blade fixed one in the Solaris), Dracon sails (that can be upgraded), no sails included on the Solaris.

I bet that you can upgrade the Solaris to the Salona specifications but then the Solaris price would be a lot more than 220500€ and the difference to the Salona much bigger. In fact, now that difference is bigger because Salona is offering an introductory price on the 38 and that means about less 30 000€ on that Salona upgrated version, and that means a difference of 80000€ to a lower specification Solaris 37.

That was what I mean. You don't buy a Solaris for the price or specifications but out of passion and for its impeccable finish

Regarding the Solaris 37 I have to say that besides the price I also don't like the interior, I mean those fashionable white cabinets that are trendy on this moment in Italy (they are similar to the ones from the new CS 39). The problem with fashions is that they go away rely quick and you end up with a boat out of fashion in no time I prefer the wood interior of the Salona (in what regards design) even if I am sure they can put you wood cabinets, as on previous Solaris models but that, I am sure, it will mean more money in extras

360 - Salona Yachts

Take a look at what I mean. this is the new Solaris 37 interior:





This is the interior of a bigger Solaris but with wood:





Some more photos of the Solaris 37:















The Solais 37 is a very beautiful boat and a boat that resembles a lot with the Salona 38, except that this one has the keel I want on the Salona and a slightly better designed transom (for my taste).

But on the other hand the Salona will be a lot faster: It was more 10m2 of sail area and weights less 800kg probably due to its epoxy based hull.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-25-2011 at 08:22 AM.
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  #1573  
Old 10-25-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMoll View Post
Paulo,

Talking about boat porn and small boats, have you found any decent pictures and info about the RM1060 Performance version that was recently launched? They even improved cabin ventilation. I wonder if any other lessons learned went into the design. The perception is that the boat is an under-performer, having been so silent about the testing and numbers. But still, I find it interesting.

Hans
Hi Hans!,

The boat sails very well. The performance was not what was expected since we expected a rocket and this is a cruising boat. Even if the performance cannot match the one from the Pogo 10.50 it is very good for a long range cruising boat of that size.

I believe that some youth problems related with a somewhat heavy and insensitive helm were already solved by now and they have just launched the performance version that I had talked about some posts back:







That consists one a carbon mast with a single keel but two rudders and better sails (they don't talk about more sail area but it is possible that they just forget to mention it).

The Carbon mast is going to make an expensive boat even more expensive. The RM 1060, a 35ft was already more expensive than a Salona 38 and with this carbon mast and other mods it would probably sell at the same price of a Salona 41

For me the biggest problem of this boat is the price, that I find to high, but that's just my opinion.

Regarding the interior photos, the interior had not any alteration regarding the standard boat . I have already posted them on a previous post.

You can have a look at their site:

RM YACHTS | RM 1060


Some videos:

RM 1060 : la bande annonce de l'essai en vidéo - YouTube

vid2_rm1060.mp4 - YouTube

Regards

Paulo
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  #1574  
Old 10-25-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Interesting indeed.. looks like a fun ride with a lot of neat ideas.. spartan, but fun. Wonder if they'd build/engineer a fixed keel version?

Plenty of good images and info on their site.

Malango 9.99
Hi Faster!

That's funny that Chimbatete had posted about that boat. A six year's old boat comparison test between that boat and a much more older type of boat made me start a research that lead to a better look and comprehensions of boat design.

Six years ago I thought that all modern and fast boats should have a look and characteristics inspired by open class racers and then on this test between two day sailers with a dinghy garage, one inspired by solo ocean racers, the other looking old (a narrow boat), I was quite sure that the Malango would be much faster, specially downwind and then....it was just not so

After that I understood that things were not so simple as I thought and started to look for more information, a search that continue today, to understand in fast boats the relation of hull shapes and performance in different weather conditions.

When I have more time I will post about that test that was very complete, both boats at the same time in the water and tested in all sailing positions with 10 and 20K wind. Both boats had about the same weight and the same LWL.

The other boat was an older one, the Daydream 300:








le Daydream 300


Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-25-2011 at 04:19 PM.
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  #1575  
Old 10-25-2011
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After Sweden yachts and Maxy yachts (Najad group) it is the time of another North European company to go under. This time it seems that it is the end for another company that have made many great boats: Finngulf.

I had the opportunity to say on this thread that their new boat, a remake of the 37, did not make much sense.



It looked old fashioned and the only alteration from the 37 seemed to be a a badly designed transom and the two wheel set-up on a lousy presentation

It seems that it was not only me that found that. The commands did not appear and they lost their only hope for recovering.

http://www.finngulf.com/binary/file/-/id/1/fid/251

They were in trouble and were already rescued but they have persisted in the same route, offering a similar product at the same price. That is just a bad policy and one that would normally fail.

I am afraid that the same is going to happen with Cabo Rico. They are in trouble, have been given some oxygen but they are not changing anything...so how do they expect to survive?

Has an opposite example, Dehler that was in trouble (bought by Hanse) modified the line of its boats (Dehler 41) lowered the prices and modified their production line with an huge reorganization. I don't know if they are going to succeed but at least they are trying the right way: Changing boat design and lowering prices.

Last edited by PCP; 10-25-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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  #1576  
Old 10-26-2011
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Let's talk about that boat test between the Malango and the daydream, published 5 years ago by Voile and voiliers magazine. Have a look at the shape and both boat characteristics. They couldn't be more different in what regards shape hull even if the keels are similar:





The boats have about the same weight, almost the same LWL, the Daydream compensates its inferior form stability with a bigger B/D ratio, the Daydeam has a much better prismatic coefficient and therefore needs less sail (power) for the same speed.

The theoretical hull speed for both boats is 7.08 for the Malango and 7.12 for the Daydream, a negligible difference of less than 0.04K.

The sea had no waves, or very small waves.

With 10k wind:

Close to the wind: Malango - 3.8K ....... Daydream - 3.9K

Downwind with Spinnaker : Malango -5.3K........ Daydream - 5.3k
(bigger one on the Malango)



With 20k wind:

Close to the wind: Malango - 5.7K ............ ....Daydream - 5.7K

Downwind with Spinnaker : Malango -8.2/surf 10K........Daydream - 8.2/surf 10k
(bigger one on the Malango)


With engine:

Cruising speed: Malango - 4.8k ..........Daydream - 5.5k

Max speed: Malango - 7.1k ..........Daydream - 7.0k

Here the Malango had a 15hp yanmar and the Daydream a 19hp Volvo.


Regarding sailing those were at the time amazing results for me, results that now I can understand.

Assuming those two boats are optimized and very well designed, and I think they are this means:

That a narrow boat has an advantage upwind in weaker winds (I believe that with a 5K wind the difference would be much bigger) and that advantage can disappear in stronger winds, but for having the same performance the beamier boat has to carry more sail to overcome its superior prismatic coefficient. He can do that because that extra beam gives it a lot more hull stability and more power to carry more sail. However in weak and medium winds the narrow boat will heel less than the beamier boat.

That was not tested on that sail test, but comparative results taken from racing performance, indicates that these results are only valid on flat water. On stronger winds offshore you have waves and the wave drag of the narrow boat will be much smaller. On this situation (strong wind and waves) the narrow boat will be considerably faster and will pound a lot less.

Downwind you have a match here but I believe that if we were talking about 30k wind or more, the Malango would be considerably faster, being able to plan more easily. Not only more easily but with more control, with less lateral ballance (that big stern would have a damping effect).

Regarding the performance under engine I don't think that that 4hp difference is responsible for that big difference in cruising speed (we can see that the max speed is very close). The worse performance of very beamy sailboats under engine is a constant on this type of hull at half power. I guess that has a relation with its worse performance with light winds: That hull needs more power to be moved at slow speeds. At higher speeds, near hull speed and over the beamier hull can plan at lesser speed and makes less drag, the opposite than at slower speeds.

We are talking here about two almost extreme hull shapes, one very narrow and the other very beamy (and that's why I found amazing that the performance was so close). Those differences would be attenuated with a less narrow boat, giving different compromises, specially in what regards differences in planning and control downwind with stronger winds, heel of the boat, and induced drag on passing waves.

Last edited by PCP; 10-26-2011 at 08:09 AM.
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  #1577  
Old 10-26-2011
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Some more information about that ongoing collection of information about hull performance and hull shape, from the "Middle of the sea race".

On this race participated several class 40 racing boats, that are performance upgraded Pogo 12,50: Same hull, but more righting moment (bulb at 3m), more sail, lighter and with water ballast.

There was not on this race any 40ft racer to compare (like the Ker 40) but I have noticed that, except on mostly downwind races like a transat, a ker 40 (or a similar less beamy modern racing boat) would be faster.

On the races that have a lo of upwind sailing with bad weather even fast-cruiser racers, like the First 40, can be faster than the class40 racers. Not on this one, but they have not stayed far:

The fastest class 40 was an Aquilaria that had made the race in 4 days 2 hours and 58m, the second was a Pogo 2 that had take more 5 minutes. The best 40ft cruiser racer was a J 122 that had taken more 3h and 35m. The second J 122 made it in 4 days 5h and 50m.

An Azuree 40, a fast 40ft cruiser designed having as model the 40class boats have done the race in 4D 21h and 20m, more 17 hours than the first J122. An older First 40.7, that is slower than the First 40 (there was none racing), made it in 4D 12h and 12m.

The Fastest was the 30m Maxi Esimit Europa 2 (the ex Alfa Romeu with an ugly painting ) with 2 Days 13 h and 25m.

Some results of other performance cruisers that we had talked about on this thread:

Swan 80 - 3D 12h 34m

Ker 53 - 3D 17h 22m

Xp 65 - 3D 21h 21m

Shipman 63 - 3D 22h 33m

Mylius 14E55 - 4D 1h 22m

XP 44 - 4D 3h 36m



Take a look at the movies, some beautiful boats out there...and some nasty weather too

Rolex Middle Sea Race: Welcome

Rolex Middle Sea Race 2011 Pre Race with Kurt Arrigo - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfsq...eature=related

Rolex middle sea race 2011 - YouTube

Last edited by PCP; 10-27-2011 at 07:19 AM.
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  #1578  
Old 10-26-2011
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Solaris one 37, the movie from FareVela:

Solaris One 37 - YouTube
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  #1579  
Old 10-26-2011
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The "Middle sea race" has been raced many times in bad weather and several great movies had been made taking advantage of those situations.

I will post two, one with a big boat, other with a small boat, both great sailboats that can take a gale and keep on sailing, a Cookson 50 and a Dehler 34. Great boats, great images

Middle sea Race 2007 Cippa Lippa - YouTube

Rolex Middle Sea Race - Major Squall on a Dehler 34 - YouTube
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Old 10-27-2011
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If I won the lottery and could have a custom boat designed the way I wanted it, I would have no problem choosing the Naval Architect, it would be Jason Ker.

Ker is a relatively young NA with an amazing short career full of racing success and it is amazing that the big boat companies only know start to ask for its services for design performance cruising boats. The first one was Sydney yachts and the beautiful new 37 and 4dfts are his work, then Southerly with the Southetly 46RS and more recently Salona that had the new keel for the Salona 38 and the new Salona 60 designed by him.

All beautiful fast and seaworthy boats.

http://salonayachts1.mmksystems.com/...20brochure.pdf

Some days ago on the Middle sea race one of his boats a 2008 designed Ker 53, a cruiser racer just managed incredible results:

The boat finished the race in 3d 17h and 22m, while a bigger racing VOR60 made it only 10m faster and a VOR70 only gained about 6 hours.

Let's look at that boat, that is not a naked racer but actually has a very nice interior :
























They say about the boat:

A high-tech and eye-catching rocket-ship of 16.00 meters in length, using America's Cup technology in design, engineering and construction for competitive racing under IRC. At the same time easy to sail short handed.

The best of two worlds. To sail fast. And to live easy.

....The KER53 is designed employing current America´s Cup technology and
knowledge. Crafted from vacuum-bagged Carbon/Epoxy with a lightweight
closed-cell core foam sandwich construction it is very strong, light, stiff and
designed to ABS Rules for Offshore Yachts and optimised for the IRC Rule.

Principal Dimensions:

• length overall, hull ........................... 16.00 m
• beam moulded ................................ 4.20 m
• draft ................................... 3.40 m
• displacement, appr. ........................ . 10.20 tonnes
• bulb weight, appr. ........................... 5.00 tonnes

Principal sail areas:

upwind ................................ approx. 170m2
spinnaker (asym.) approx. 280m2
rig dimensions

Apart from the 3.40 m pure-performance version, a fixed keel with a draft of only 2.90m has been created for No. 01 which will also meet the extremely high demands of the successful designer, fine tuned with the weight (depending on the equipment), the FORMULA-France rigging and the sails design. Jason expects some slight advantages with this keel version for offshore and in long-distance conditions.

A 3rd version, external lifting keel with 2.60 to 3.60m draft, will round off the keel program for the future of the KER53 C/R.

Another glance through the keyhole of the design office? At 20 kn TWS and 135° TWA the speedo shows 14,08 kn

...the interior is constructed in lightweight carbon/foam sandwich panels, with particular attention to the finish and fit of all the furniture in keeping with the standards of a high quality cruiser/racer.

Large coachroof windows and opening hatches allow for light and fresh air to
circulate through the entire interior. Hull windows in the saloon deliver
additional light and panoramic views of the oceanscape from the comfort of the saloon.

...The boat will be equipped with push button controls for the mainsail, vang, outhaul and backstay. These can be easily operated by the helmsman using high performance hydraulic system for fast, easy and accurate trimming.

FAST. AND EASY.



Well, unlike many advertised boats that promise top performance with a luxurious interior, this one actually delivers what it is promised: An incredibly fast boat with a good cruising interior

Last edited by PCP; 10-27-2011 at 07:06 AM.
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