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  #1711  
Old 11-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi Nemier,
Actually I have accepted today the offer from Salona to buy a 38. I am waiting for a contract with the leasing guys....


And how about you? You are the most strange guy I know about choosing a boat Specially considering you have a lot of sailing experience. I guess it has to have with your wife

Maybe that cat idea was not so bad in what regards your wive, providing you don't take her offshore (you can fly her).

Regards
Paulo
Hey Paulo,
I shall save my Congratulations until the finance is in place, as you wish

As for me?
Short answer, still no decision as to which boat we shall buy next. The boat we have now is remains up for sale. Moving forward though, we are going to sell our home this spring (downsizing) to make our eventual purchase easier. And as for my wife, well what can I say? After 27 years we're still very much in love and all our boat decisions are made together. I guess we're in no particular rush and we'll get there.
The Cat is still an option, but the plan is definitely to make the transits together.

I have been reviewing this thread for months now and have really enjoyed watching your personal boat-choice decision process. For what it's worth, I believe you have made a great choice and you really can't go wrong with this boat (Salona 38) - well done Paulo!
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  #1712  
Old 11-29-2011
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Thanks Eric,

I guess that the differences that led you to choose that one and I to choose another one is because I like to voyage a lot, mostly on the med where there are not trade winds and also because I intend to live in the boat for some months each year. Even in what regards sail performance I value differently sailing qualities, and that of course, has to do with the use it is going to be given to the boat and with personal preferences.
Hi Paulo,

I think your analysis is very accurate once again.
If we would be able to spend long periods of time aboard as you will do, the Pogo would have been a wrong choice. Weight is essential for these designs and although they can of course be loaded like any other, it would certainly take away most of the fun.
That’s why I appointed our youngest son as “weight watcher”, who checks anything that will be taken on board for weight/relevance ratio. My wife already complains he is too severe, while the boat is not even there yet! He even objected against the lightest possible outboard for the tender, because simple oars work so well, are much lighter and will improve Mum and Dad’s physical condition .

In this prospect your Salona 38 (and hopefully also your son ) will be more forgiving and certainly a much better performer upwind, which is what you want when cruising extensively for longer periods of time.
We will spend most of our time day sailing or making short trips along the Channel and the North Sea, giving us the opportunity to choose our destination according to short term wind predictions and avoiding beating upwind as much as possible. We hope also to be able to spend two or three week holidays in Ireland, Scotland, Brittany and Scandinavia. This will then of course imply passage-making and inevitably some close-hauled sailing, but these delivery trips will mostly be outsourced to our sons and their evenly fanatic and frentic sailing friends. They will take the slamming with a smile, we intend to take the car (and the outboard… ).

That is also why we care less about the somewhat minimalistic interior of the 12.50, which also for us would be much less acceptable if we were to live on board for longer periods of time. But on the other hand, we love the very bright and enormous space, which is quite exceptional for a 40 ft cruiser.

Draft is also much less an issue in the Med than it is in these Northern cruising grounds. Having a very slim and almost dagger board-shaped, composite glass/vinylester foil with the lead ballast down to 3m below the waterline is a thrilling perspective for us, probably because of our dinghy background. But this would be unfeasible without being able to lift the keel in our mostly shallow harbors. We think this is also a safety issue, because the hydraulic mechanism will absorb most of the impact should we run aground, by releasing the keel instantaneously.
For you this is a much lesser issue and I completely agree with your emphasis on the steel grid construction of the Salona. We have sailed a 1992 Dehler 39 CWS extensively, constructed in a very similar way, and which we once ran aground very abruptly at >8kts during the Antwerp Race. Without any single damage, except many crew with quite some bruises. Ten years and two owners later, this yacht now stands ashore at our yacht club for a major refit, but only of the interior .

I also very much agree with your analysis about chartering versus buying a yacht. Charterers can sail yachts they will probably never be able to afford to buy, can visit any cruising area they like and never have to bother about repairs and maintenance. On the other hand, they cannot decide on Friday to go sailing for the weekend.
Owning a yacht therefore only makes sense when it is going to be sailed extensively. That is why we mostly chartered for 30 years and waited for both our kids to become sufficiently experienced and motivated before ordering the Pogo, so the boat will have three skippers instead of one and hopefully even more different crews.

We visited the Structures yard one month ago, it should now be almost finished. You probably would, but we do not intend to make the 550 M trip to Nieuwpoort before next spring.

Finally, I think the way Salona is complying with your specifications and providing custom made solutions is indeed quite impressive and certainly exceptional for a non-custom boat builder.
On the other hand, it seems to me you are handing them valuable improvements on an already excellent design.
So the bottom line is: they must be very proud that “our” Paulo, the expert opinion maker of this excellent thread, chose for them.

Best regards,

Eric
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  #1713  
Old 11-29-2011
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Well, let's move more in topic:

Have you ever heard about General Lee?


No, not that one, I have say that I would stay in topic, I mean the boat.

This one:













Not much of a cruising boat but the minimum to live offshore for some weeks in very Spartan conditions, but what a missile.

If this is not the fastest offshore 36ft racer, it is certainly among the few that can aspire to that title. The boat was launched last year and it is a Bakewell-White design. Many of the best naval architects come from New Zealand like those two.

The boat is a kind of small TP 52, has a medium to high beam (3.6m) and a light weight (all carbon), considering that most of the weight is ballast:

LOA 11.30m
10.00m DWL
maximum beam 3.60m
Draft 2.65m
Displacement 3585 kg
Ballast 2100kg
Sail area 84 m2


The most strange characteristic is a foldable mast. I seems they need one to enter they home port closed followed by a winch pedestal. It seems that it is the smallest boat that has one.... or the most strange thing is that incredible B/D ratio?

The designer says about it:

The original brief was for a fun twilight racing for Perth's Swan River - a mini-TP52. The first boat 'Al Fresco' is an inshore boat That occasionally races in coastal and offshore. ..In order to get out of the river to the ocean at Fremantle The Boat Have To pass beneath a fixed bridge and so the yachts all Have A Method of Lowering the mast and for this reason the mast is deck stepped and Can Be lowered and raised again Within a few minutes.

'General Lee' is an offshore oriented version of the boat and as a result ice Slightly Heavies. She hock more interior facilities, electronics, and a more robust deck package Including a pedestal driving the primary winches to Ensure are high line speed When the action gennakers...

The hull shape was Developed to produce a boat That is a good all around performer and whilst quick downwind this Boats real strength is upwind. To Achieve this We Have spent time ensuring a well balanced volume distribution, a good ballast ratio ... The Hull is not chined largely because the original client Considered them ugly, and as the emphasis was not Reaching and running we did not feel they were a Necessity beyond being a current fashion accessory.

The issue of rating was not to influence the design too much other than minimizing any extreme features That Would Affect adversely the IRC rating for the boat.

Fun was always the first priority and corrected time results a nice bonus. Al Fresco hock scored some good IRC results and finished 2nd in the West Australian IRC championship season, and General Lee hock recently finished 2nd in the IRC 1200nm Auckland to Fiji race in her first outing.


If you want to read some very interesting just look under the name of the races:

General Lee Racing - Fremantle to Busselton Race


How about doing 25K on a 36ft monohull

Look at the boys getting line honors with a 36ft boat....that is some serious fun!!!!!







Last edited by PCP; 11-29-2011 at 03:30 PM.
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  #1714  
Old 11-29-2011
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Well Paulo I do hope all the finance falls into place for you. While I was a little disappointed with the interior fitout of the Salona (41 ?) I saw at the Sydney Boat Show this year they still seemed to me to be the best of the bunch and she certainly looks like she'd be fun to sail particularly given that your sailing grounds don't seem to have any depth worries.

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to watching the build progress and seeing her on the water.

Must say I like the look of the Faurby and if I was ever to go multi hull a Catana would probably do nicely, though I do have a strong liking for Chris White's designs. Not as plush as the Catana but they appeal to me at least.

I share you admiration for Sven Irvind. Guys like that, quiet achievers. Good stuff, and yep I'd like one of those mini sextants as well.

Unfortunately, image files from the Chris White site are copyright so all I can do right now is this link. I'll see if I can find images elsewhere.

A 42 - ChrisWhiteDesigns' Photos | SmugMug

ah .. here we go ...



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  #1715  
Old 11-29-2011
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Here are some images of an Atlantic 42 named Catalyst from the CCA website - "The Boats We Sail". The link is dead but I downloaded the pdf last year.
Attached Thumbnails
Interesting Sailboats-8.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-2.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-1.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-6.jpg  
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  #1716  
Old 11-29-2011
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And a few more
Attached Thumbnails
Interesting Sailboats-5.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-4.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-3.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-7.jpg  
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  #1717  
Old 11-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Well Paulo I do hope all the finance falls into place for you. While I was a little disappointed with the interior fitout of the Salona (41 ?) I saw at the Sydney Boat Show this year they still seemed to me to be the best of the bunch and she certainly looks like she'd be fun to sail particularly given that your sailing grounds don't seem to have any depth worries.

...
Unfortunately, image files from the Chris White site are copyright so all I can do right now is this link. I'll see if I can find images elsewhere.
..
Thanks Andrew,

That's true that Salona has shown some inconsistency in what regards interiors, not properly in quality but on the finish. As I have said they have been improving and the Salona 41 that I sailed this summer was well finished. I hope mine to be as well finished as this 38:


360 - Salona Yachts




That's a nice cat the Chris white 42. The interior seems to be very well finished but the saloon seems small for a 42ft cat. The boat seems fast and it is probably fast, but that cabin looks like a dog house and does not integrate very well in a boat that except that I find a very nice one.

That steering post ahead of the cabin does not seem a good idea to me. On a fast cat going well on the ocean there will be a lot of spray in the air in that place and it will find its way to the eyes of the wheel-man and will enter the cabin when the the door is open.

There is a lot of new cat designs and some very interesting, have a look at this one, the Barramundi 47, a fast voyage cat:












They also have a 50ft cat:





http://www.barramundi-boats.com/


Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-29-2011 at 08:19 PM.
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  #1718  
Old 11-29-2011
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I've never sailed a cat. I have liked Chris White's designs though.

Here's a link to another, but a tri. Hammerhead 54 Trimaran High Performance Cruising Catamarans and Trimarans by Chris White Designs
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  #1719  
Old 11-29-2011
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Brian,
Thanks for the extra Atlantic 42 pics.

Paulo,

There is an A42 moored nearby to us in Sydney and I confess it is for me a lovely thing. I simply love the boats attitude.

The saloon/deckhouse does appear to be on the small side but it gives you an excellent lounging and dining area , control station and full sized separate navigation centre. All features that I happen to like. The Atlantic also has the galley in the starboard hull which to me makes good sense. Too many cats take up valuable deckhouse space by having the galley up top with the only advantage gained being more sleeping cabins. The A42 is no way a family boat but for a couple she still gets my vote.

One thing about the Barramundi that would rule her out for me is the curved settee. I've mentioned elsewhere that one of my very few criticisms of the Malo are the curved end cushions. They are vaguely acceptable but nit as comfortable for lounging as squared off ends. To my mind curved settees are an utter abomination, a deal breaker for me that is for certain.

Cheers mate

Andrew
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  #1720  
Old 11-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
.. The A42 is no way a family boat but for a couple she still gets my vote...

One thing about the Barramundi that would rule her out for me is the curved settee. I've mentioned elsewhere that one of my very few criticisms of the Malo are the curved end cushions. They are vaguely acceptable but nit as comfortable for lounging as squared off ends. To my mind curved settees are an utter abomination, a deal breaker for me that is for certain.

Cheers mate
Andrew
It looks like a family boat to me and on those photos posted by Brian the saloon looks a bit better, but even so on a small side. The problems with cats is that it is difficult to design a small cat (42ft for an oceanic cat is not big) and make it look good.

Regarding the Barramundi interior I agree with you not necessarily on the rounded shapes, but on its design and that's the reason I did not post any interior photos

But in what regards outside design, well, I think it is better: Can you imagin a big wave with the top crashing over the two boats?

That vertical big surface on the Atlantic would be a lot worse in not offering resistance to the wave than the slick curved shape of the Barramundi and that's about that I was talking about when I have said that I did not like that big doghouse on the Atlantic 42.

I like more the TS cats and those have a good interior. I have posted about them already, about the TS 50 here:

Interesting Sailboats

and if you missed it go there to see the speed potential of this big "animal"

But the new TS 52.8 seems even better. A delightful long range cruiser, a family boat for sure, and certainly one of the fastest:





Regards

Paulo
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