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  #1721  
Old 11-30-2011
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The Chris white Atlantic 55 and 57:








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  #1722  
Old 11-30-2011
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Hey Andrews,

Regarding Atlantic Cats conception in what regards pilot station, Ssee what I mean regarding having the spray in your face?



And no spray-wood to take cover. I had my share of that and I can tell you that even with a sprayhood that iced water will hit your face to a point it will hurt, not to mention the spectacles that in no time with be full of salt. I use to have a bottle of fresh water to poor over them to take the salt away. Not agreable, but I am sure you had your share too

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-01-2011 at 08:44 AM.
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  #1723  
Old 11-30-2011
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As I have said, a lot of gorgeous cats are hitting the water.

I followed the design of this one. It promised to be a great boat and I think that they have manege to make a great boat: The Alibi 54. Two on the water already.







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  #1724  
Old 11-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I've never sailed a cat. I have liked Chris White's designs though.

Here's a link to another, but a tri. Hammerhead 54 Trimaran High Performance Cruising Catamarans and Trimarans by Chris White Designs
I believe we have already talked about this one when Sailingdog was around.

I like the concept of a cruising trimaran, they are more predictable than the cats at the limit and they give plenty warning before capsizing.

Not that cruising cats have any problem if they are sailed wisely, but I am afraid that I like too mutch to go fast to be always wise.

The problem with the trimarans is that they have a lot less space than a cat, even less space than a same sized monohull. The Hammerhead 54 tries to get as much space as you can get...but even so it is not much.








Blue Water Sailing


I am sure that it is a great cruising fast trimaran but I find the design old. It looks a racing tri from the 80's with a "modern" flashy cabin

I know that Chris white is a legendary NA and that his boats sail well, but I prefer the European legend on cats and trimarans, Erik Le Rouge (I bet that you did not know the guy).

Eric designed a fast cruiser/racer tri, the Pulsar 50 that I like a lot more than the hammerhead. The boat don't pretend to have a great interior space. for that people should buy a cat. No, this boat is about performance cruising with a functional interior and the boat just does both things very well. Have a look:






















Some would say this is a racing boat and that nobody is gonna cruise it for any extended period, but they would be wrong. The boat was made by a couple (more than 50 years old) from EriK plans. They finish it and they have circumnavigated with the boat

The boat was sold by its previous owners and is now making its first race, well, not properly a race, sort of. He is making the ARC rally and is leading, beating all the big maxi racing monohulls (90ft) and a fast 66ft cat, a Gunboat with a racing crew (they make a lot of races).

World Cruising Club Arc fleet viewer

Tris 16m

Erik Le Rouge boats are many times home or partially home made and an unusual proportion circumnavigate or sails to faraway places. Have a look:

News

Also an interesting interview with Erik:

An Interview with Multihull Designer Erik Lerouge

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-30-2011 at 05:36 PM.
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  #1725  
Old 11-30-2011
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Looking again at the ARC Rally there is a boat that is making a hell of a rally, a boat that is raced frequently with great results, an older boat, an Oyster 48 lightwave.

World Cruising Club Arc fleet viewer

This is a boat designed by Carl Schumacher in 1988 and a remarkably modern boat for its time. this particular Oyster 48 is the ScarletOyster, the boat from the Ellen MacArtur trust boat, a very well crewed boat.

Scarlet Oyster - 48' Oyster Lightwave

OYSTER 48 LIGHTWAVE sailboat on sailboatdata.com










The boat is among the first and it is chased closely by an Outremer 49 (a cat) and by a Pogo 40.


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  #1726  
Old 11-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hey Andrews,

Regarding Atlantic Cats conception in what regards pilot station, Ssee what I mean regarding having the spray in your face?

snip photo

And no spray-wood to take cover. I had my share of that and I can tell you that even with a spraywood that iced water will hit your face to a point it will hurt, not to mention the spectacles that in no time with be full of salt. I use to have a bottle of fresh water to poor over them to take the salt away. Not agreable, but I am sure you had your share too

Regards

Paulo
Spray Wood indeed .... oh I do like typos.

I must admit that the unprotected forward cockpit is a bit strange. I wonder if a dodger is doable ?

Anyway, this is all academic as a second hand Atlantic 42 is twice what we paid for the Malo so I doubt very much I will ever be considering one.

That said I reckon I'd be pretty happy with one of the modern cats. I'm not as competitive as you so would be unlikely to push so hard. The interior space, stable platform and shallow draft, have got to be positives.

Cheers

Andrew
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Another 'thoroughly (surprisingly) modern' old Carl Schumacher design is the Express 37... One of the better boats in that size range from that era, IMO...
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  #1728  
Old 12-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Spray Wood indeed .... oh I do like typos.

I must admit that the unprotected forward cockpit is a bit strange. I wonder if a dodger is doable ?

Anyway, this is all academic as a second hand Atlantic 42 is twice what we paid for the Malo so I doubt very much I will ever be considering one.

That said I reckon I'd be pretty happy with one of the modern cats. I'm not as competitive as you so would be unlikely to push so hard. The interior space, stable platform and shallow draft, have got to be positives.

Cheers

Andrew
OK! Already corrected. You know the biggest difficulty with a foreign language are the words that have a close phonetic sound but are written in a different way. I have to read again to take out typos and some get away. I know that the Ameticans use the word dodger but all the others speaking English prefer Sprayhood and it seems a more specific word to me

Yes a spray-hood it would probably be possible but it would look ugly and I never saw an Atlantic Cat with one.

Andrews, I do not post only boats I could dream to afford. Even if I cannot afford them I like them, the way I like a Porsche or a Ferrari, I mean even more and I like to see and talk about them. Hope that I am not the only one, I mean that like to see and heard about very good and nice boats even if I do not have the money to have them.

About cats and price, I had looked at them as candidates to my personal boat but they are just too expensive, I mean the ones that are fast and seaworthy enough to be safely offshore. I really hate fat cats that are worse sailing than a good boat and are just made to offer a mediocre sailing performance and a huge interior.

There are some small ones that are very good as fast coastal boats and even some medium ones that with a careful sailing are good offshore boats but even those exceed my budget and don't offer the same kind of performance in bad weather a same priced well chosen monohull can offer.

Besides I am not the kind of guy that likes to make defensive sailing and I would be probably in trouble, sooner or later, with one of those small offshore cats

But for a guy that has the money for a 50ft cat there are very interesting propositions in what regards speed, cruising amenities, comfort, space and seaworthiness. I guess that if someone has the money for that it will not be preoccupied with marina prices that in Europe are huge and that, just for that, would take any cat from my list of options: They pay the double of a similar sized monohull.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-01-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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  #1729  
Old 12-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Another 'thoroughly (surprisingly) modern' old Carl Schumacher design is the Express 37... One of the better boats in that size range from that era, IMO...






Yes, I agree, that one deserves a post on this thead.

Even if I don't know much about older boats, I can see that the design is very good and advanced for its time, as it was its building techniques and that raises two questions:

Why the hell did this boat was only built during a short period of time and in so short numbers (1984-88 -65 built)?

Why a man that was way ahead of its time like Carl Schumacher designed so few sailboats?

He was born in 1949 and died in 2002 and almost all its boats were designed over a short period between 1982 and 1988. It seems to me that a lot of talent was wasted

Sailboat Designs of Carl*Schumacher

Back to the Express 37, it was a very light boat, with about 5000kg of weight, about 40% of them in ballast, a moderate beam of 3.51 m and with a hull that looks almost actual the boat could only be very fast and seaworthy.

With that weight the boat had to have a very careful construction using the best available materials and techniques and that was the case. The boat had an Llyods approved balsa-cored hull using acrylic modified epoxy resins applied through vacuum infusion techniques.

Except balsa for the core, this is the materials and techniques that are used to build Salona yachts and that only production builders that make expensive boats use today. That shows how advanced that boat was, not only in design, but also in construction.

Of course, if those techniques are still expensive today I can imagine that back in the 80's the Express 37 was a very expensive boat and perhaps that explains why there was not many built.

The boat design criteria was this:

The concept for the Express 37 was developed in 1984 by Carl Schumacher and boat builder Terry Alsberg of Alsberg Brothers Boatworks in Santa Cruz. When Schumacher penned the Express 37, his objective was to design a boat that would excel on long ocean races, that was easy and safe to sail short-handed, and would have at least 6' of standing headroom. The first boats built by Alsberg Brother Boatworks finished 1, 2 and 3 in the 1985 TransPac, an ocean race held on the West Coast. There were eventually 65 built and these boats continue to compile an enviable record.

Schumacher's design has come to be referred to as a "masthead-fractional" rig, given the large, low-aspect main and small, high-aspect foretriangle. Helmsmen and trimmers find the design more forgiving to sail than a fractional rig. With a high ballast-to-displacement ratio ... she's also a stiff boat well suited for windy condition like those on San Francisco Bay. With an active fleet on both East and West coasts, the Express 37 is a testament to Schumacher's talent and the enduring appeal of the yachts he designed.


Express 37

John Kretschmer said about it in a 2005 review:

A fast, fun, one-design racer turned cruiser from the ULDB era
...
The design criteria for the 37 was clear from the beginning. Schumacher and Alsberg wanted an off-the-wind rocket ship that was big enough and tough enough to stand up to the rigors of long-distance offshore racing. And they achieved their objective almost immediately. Introduced in late 1984, the first Express 37s finished first, second and third in class in the 1985 Transpac Race.

Alsberg, who learned his trade working for ULDB guru Ron Moore, did a terrific job of building the Express series, which later included a 34-footer. Some say he built the boats too well, and by 1989 his shop was in trouble and soon out of business...

The Express 37 is deceptive, at first glance it doesn’t look like an offshore-capable thoroughbred, it can be easily mistaken for a run of the mill, racer-cruiser style production boat... A careful inspection of the underbody lines reveals flat, flared sections forward and this, no doubt, helps the 37 surf on even modest waves. The keel is a narrow-cord foil slightly raked aft. The balanced rudder is placed well aft. Weight is centered in the middle of the boat to keep the ends light and buoyant and again to facilitate getting up on top of the water.

The double-spreader rig is moderate in proportion and the sailplan includes a large, relatively low-aspect main and smaller, high-aspect headsail. This rig has been coined a “masthead fractional rig,” which handles like a fractional rig but delivers more horsepower and trims more efficiently. Displacement numbers seem to vary, the original design called for 9,500 pounds of displacement and 4,500 pounds of ballast. According to some reports, Schumacher claimed the finished boat weighed in closer to 11,000 pounds ..

To a build a light boat that can stand up to the demands and loads of serious ocean racing, you have to build it well, and that was certainly the case with the Express 37. The hand-laid-up, vacuum-bagged hull is balsa-cored and Alsberg was one of the first builders to use vinylester resin in the outer layers to prevent blisters. The deck is also balsa-cored and joined to the hull on a typical inward flange and bonded with 3M 5200 and stainless screws.

.. Few if any hull problems have been reported by owners. Indeed, the 37’s hull is known for being virtually bulletproof. Also, the older Express 37s that I have examined are remarkably free of gelcoat crazing and cracking; the original fiberglass work was excellent...

Although there is little doubt that the deck layout was designed for racing, it is surprisingly easy to convert to a more cruiser-friendly arrangement, especially shorthanded cruising. All mast and sail control lines are led aft to the cockpit and can be controlled from a position standing in the companionway. This is not a bad system, it keeps crew weight centered and safely in the boat. The cockpit is set up for efficient sail trimming, with the mainsheet traveler on a bridge just aft of the companionway, the primaries outboard and the tiller well aft. A few boats came with wheel steering and others have been retrofitted but the boat is made for tiller steering.
...
While nobody will confuse the interior of the Express 37 with a Cabo Rico, it is functional and reasonably comfortable. ... There isn’t much storage as tanks take up the space below the settees, although there are small overhead lockers along the hull sides.
....
The MK II Express 37 featured a much better interior plan. Not only is it finished nicer but the arrangement is much improved. There is a real V-berth double, a comfortable saloon, a U-shaped galley and a double quarter cabin aft to port.

Unfortunately only 10 MK IIs were built...

Underway:
This is what it’s all about and it is the reason you buy an Express 37—the boat sails brilliantly. Designed to fly off the wind, the 37 also sails fast upwind.

“The boat just has great bone—it is tough, I’d sail mine anywhere,” said Schneider, the San Francisco Bay fleet captain and 37 devotee.

It has to be to stand up to 20 years of racing in the bay. While it is not at its best upwind in light air, the 37 finds it stride when the wind pipes up. Extremely close winded, the boat can carry decent headsails even blasting to weather, although the typical technique of dumping the main to keep the boat relatively flat is definitely the fastest way to sail. The Express 37 PHRF rating seems to range around 70.

...Although class rules allow for up eight crew, the boat can be sailed safely even in, as Schneider calls them, “gnarly conditions offshore,” short-handed. The boat is light but so are the loads.

Conclusion:
The Express 37 offers exhilarating performance both on and off the racecourse. ..Also, following the trend of their boats, as racing sailors get older and migrate toward more casual sailing, a logical decision might be to convert a 37 into more of a cruising boat. With prices hovering around $80,000, the Express 37 is a terrific value.


Express 37

Here we have a movie with a Expres37 modified Salona 37 like, I mean the open cockpit and the transom bench:



And some racing:





Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-01-2011 at 11:25 AM.
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  #1730  
Old 12-01-2011
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Less than two months for the election of the European boat of the year and sailboat magazine journalists from many European countries are busy sail testing all the boats. The boats nominated are:


Family Cruiser Category:

Bénéteau Oceanis 45
Elan 210
Dufour 445 Grand'Large
RM 1060
Sun Odyssey 379

Luxury Cruiser category:

Amel 64
Bénéteau Sense 50
Bestewind 50
Hallberg Rassy 64
Oyster 625

Performance Cruiser Category:

Dehler 41
Grand Soleil 50
Pogo 12:50
J-111
XP 44

Yachts Special Category:

Tarac
Kay's 22
Dinamica 940
Eagle 44
Esse 750

And they have not been very lucky with the weather

It is in German but the movies are very interesting and show great images of some beautiful new boats:

MOVIE:

EYOTY 2011/2012: Rauschefahrt vor Barcelona - YACHT-TV*|*YACHT.DE


MOVIE:


EYOTY 2011/2012: Sturmfahrt der Nominierten - YACHT-TV*|*YACHT.DE
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