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  #1811  
Old 12-21-2011
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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Did some digging and here's an explanation of the symbols in the diagram above:




Great Thread, Paulo.... keep it up!

I'm not awarding prizes but this has got to be one of if not the most interesting threads of the year. Well done indeed Master Paulo.
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  #1812  
Old 12-21-2011
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Thanks Faster and Andrews. To finish the night, just a classic boat movie: beautiful boats, pity those guys never see the sun

Refanut Baltic Classic Race 2011 Västervik-Trosa from Lars Öhman on Vimeo.



Regards

Paulo
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  #1813  
Old 12-22-2011
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I was very curious about what the testers of my preferred sail magazine would be saying after testing the Grand Soleil 39 and I would be interested in seeing if they would confirm the opinion that I have on the boat. I was and I am very impressed with that boat.

I had a good look at the boat at the Paris boat show but I did not have sailed the boat and my opinion about that was based on what Italian testers from several boat magazines had said about it (and the movies they had made). But they were Italians and the boat is also Italian so their opinion could be a bit more "favorable" than it should be if it was a non Italian boat. I was really interested in that German opinion, just to see if it matched with the one from the Italians.







So, the opinion from the guys from the German "Yacht" magazine (translated):

Sporty, beautiful and full of good ideas

Cantiere del Pardo wants to reposition itself, and it builds a strong performance cruiser for the medium segment...

The sailing boat is powerful and left us with a good impression. The deck layout is high functional and have new and sophisticated approaches...

On deck, linen and sheets are hardly seen; the running rigging is as far as possible out in channels. Visually it looks classy and its functionality is clearly a plus.

Below deck, which is characterized by a very nice new and modern interior design....open and flooded with light.

Cantiere del Pardo works with a lot of white surfaces and an increasing number of white composite materials.This looks fabulous and relaxing giving a strong visually distinctive look. This is also due to the several large windows and an interior more luminous than before.

The standard boat is equipped with mahogany veneers but can also have an interior with light oak or teak.


Well, I guess that they were impressed too

You can read all the test on the last number of the magazine.

Last edited by PCP; 12-22-2011 at 08:44 AM.
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  #1814  
Old 12-22-2011
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The much awaited substitute of the Hanse 400, the 415:
















The Hanse 400 is a great boat, a fast one for a cruiser and a boat that had in its interior the weakest part. Well in what regards sailing performance and stability this seems to be at least as good and probably better and faster than the late 400. A good looking boat with a modern design.

The water line is 0.6m longer, the boat has a more modern and efficient bulbed keel, a lot of beam carried aft in what seems to be a good looking hull, a big B/D ratio (taken into consideration this type of keel) and it offers Germam sheeting but contrary to the French boats this one at least offers the possibility of a separated winch for the genoa (I don't know if it is standard).

It offers also a considerable sail area, 87 m2, specially considering this is the sail area with a self taking jib. With a Genoa it will have well over 90 m2.







Regarding the interior these layouts are not god enough to see if there is some improvement, but after seeing the Dehler 41 interior I am a bit pessimist. we can see already that the saloon will have only a small port hull, much smaller than in any French boat (even smaller than the two on the Grand soleil 39) and that the two cabin version only offers a small galley. To have a galley compared to what the Benetau 41 offers on the three cabin version we would have to go here for the two cabin version.

The boat will be at the Dusseldorf boat show.

Last edited by PCP; 12-22-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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  #1815  
Old 12-22-2011
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Every so often a member starts a thread that takes on a life of its own and becomes a unique resource for our community. To keep these threads visible they receive a stationary position on the forum.

Such is the case with this thread and with Paulo's ongoing support of it. As a result SailNet Moderator Faster nominated this thread and asked me to confer the honor and thank Paulo for his hard work in creating this wonderful discussion.

Thank you Paulo!
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  #1816  
Old 12-23-2011
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Hi Paulo

Just back from a sailing boot camp of RYA theory, first aid at sea and a prep week for the next step up but I have managed to follow the thread on my mobile with great interest.

Firstly congratulations on your Salona 38 choice - I am sure you have chosen well and that you will get what you expect. When I was in Croatia earlier this year, I had a look at the Salona 37 and realised that yachts are as much an affair of the heart as they are an affair of the head. To my eye, the Salona 37 in its non face-lifted version just doesn't have the look which probably explains why Salona opted for the colourful hulls? The face-lifted Salona 37 and the new Salona 38 on the other hand have all the specs AND the looks.

Also thanks for the incredibly helpful information on keels - it seems that if we really want to compare stability, we need to compare RM stability charts for each boat - if only they were available on all yachts.

To my next point - More and more manufacturers seem to be putting the shrouds out on the gunwale as opposed to mounting them nearer the coach roof. I think this has been done partly due to mainsails becoming bigger, genoas becoming smaller but also no doubt to make the rig stronger and more stable. There is a downside to this though. Consider the Beneteau Oceanis 37 which is also one of my favourites. Some critics believe that the yacht is under canvassed and will suffer a little in light winds as well as when the yacht is on a broad reach or running without a spinnaker or assymetrical. With the shrouds out on the gunwale, it becomes more difficult and sometimes impossible to increase the size of the genoa to beyond the 105% that it comes out with. I notice too that the Grand Soleil 39 and the Hanse 415 have also placed the shrouds here. Surely you break even or win by having the shrouds inboard - albeit with additional re-inforcement - as this allows one to increase the size of the genoa to say 140%. It also allows you to achieve a tighter sheeting angle well sailing close hauled so it is a choice that I don't fully understand. The Dufour 375 by the way has the shrouds inboard which seemed to help in achieving a sparkling performance in the latest test in Sailing Today.

Congrats on the forum's award by the way - totally merited.

All the best

David
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  #1817  
Old 12-23-2011
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You are interested in all those boats?

Najad are expensive Luxury cruisers, very good boats with very nice quality interiors. They are on the same league with Halberg Rassy and Malo, all Swedish boats but I guess you already now that. Old ones are a bit on the slow side but new models are good sailing boats, a bit slower than the typical mass production cruiser in light wind but relatively fast and seaworthy with medium winds.

Here you have a movie from the Yachting Monthly test sail to the Najad 410:



And a test summary:

Najad 410 | Single-hull Boat Reviews | Yachting Monthly | Single-Hull Boat Reviews | Yachting Monthly

A test by Sail magazine on the 570 with a movie:

Najad 570 Test Sail | Sail Magazine

A movie of a 440ac in a race



Some test sails on the 355:

Najad 355 | Sail Magazine

Najad 355 Sailboat Review | Cruising World

48° North - Test Sail

some more nice movies:








And here a list of tests you can find about each model:

Najad Owners Forum - Boat Reviews

And you speak German and don't mind to pay 2€ for each you can find some good ones here, including some comparatives :

Download*|*YACHT.DE

Regards

Paulo
Paulo Thanks for you help.
I have seen a lot of NAJAD yachts movies in the youtube, but it would be interesting to hear opinions and experiences from the owners. Have you sailed one or been on board in the international fairs, like Paris?
From what i searched these brand is more expensive than HR and Mallo in general comparing the same length.
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  #1818  
Old 12-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APP Mode View Post
Paulo Thanks for you help.
I have seen a lot of NAJAD yachts movies in the youtube, but it would be interesting to hear opinions and experiences from the owners. Have you sailed one or been on board in the international fairs, like Paris?
From what i searched these brand is more expensive than HR and Mallo in general comparing the same length.
The Najad normally are not at the Paris boat show and the best place to see them is in Dusseldorf and also on the Hamburg boat show.

I have never sailed one but have been many time inside Najads, particularly the 380 and the 410. About seven years ago the boat I saw as ideal for me was a Najad, an Halberg Rassy or a Malo and the size I was interested in was 38/40 ft so as you can imagine I followed very closely all the test sails and on the boat shows I was careful in comparing the interiors and the build quality that is very high for the three boats, specially in what concerns the interior.

I particularly liked the Najad 380 and even more the Malo 40. At the time the Halberg- Rassy only had the older 37 center cockpit (that is still on production) and Malo a 36ft or a 40ft. The Najad 380 offered more than the Halberg Rassy and I liked also the more modern design (I even felt that the quality was a bit better) of the Najad 380.

Today Halberg-Rassy has modernized its production and the 372 is a faster and more modern boat than the Najad 380 even if not with the same interior space and probably with an interior with a slight less quality.

As you know Najad went down and recently was bought by a Swedish motor boat company. We will see if they maintain the quality, that always was a benchmark and if they chose, as Halberg-Rassy, to modernize the boats to match in sail performance other high end cruisers, like the cruising line of X-yachts.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1819  
Old 12-23-2011
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I will try to go to Dusseldorf 2012, they are going to show both 440 (AC and CC).
I agree with you about the N380. Its accommodations facilities and many other things are very unique comparing to other boats that are available in the market in the same size.
The HR372 is an amazing boat with excellent cruising performance, even in the " YACHTING Monthly" article when they tested the boat, they mentioned that it is a good value of money.
Malo in my opinion has a pleasant cockpit , but i don't understand this brand why they didn't built a nice space aft cabin in the Malo 47 like we can find in the N380? But the interiors are well finished.

About NAJAD crisis it was good news that Nordwest bought it , and i am confident about it.

Regards
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  #1820  
Old 12-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daviid View Post
To my next point - More and more manufacturers seem to be putting the shrouds out on the gunwale as opposed to mounting them nearer the coach roof. ..... There is a downside to this though. ....... Surely you break even or win by having the shrouds inboard - ... It also allows you to achieve a tighter sheeting angle well sailing close hauled so it is a choice that I don't fully understand.

I think this concept makes a lot of sense overall... if the rig is designed around it, you end up with much more manageable headsails.. and fewer required. As far as pointing ability pretty much all of these boats sheet their non overlapping headsails inside the shrouds, and in fact now there's virtually no limit to the sheeting angle achievable. Of course how far inboard you can go depends a lot on the rest of the rig/hull/keel configuration.

But overall, on the wind you won't need a lot of pressure before you're fully powered up with the standard rig (with enough power in the mainsail, of course) and off the wind the various Code 0s and Code Ds etc on a sprit will fill the gap between beating and running that traditionally required a whopping genoa.
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