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  #1851  
Old 01-05-2012
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Paulo, thanks for all this info. Very strange you will have to pay VAT after Croatia joins EU for already purchased yacht. Does it mean any Croatia registered yacht owner will have to pay VAT? It doesn't make any sense and my guess this would apply just for French flagged vessels. Your described scheme will not work anymore in all EU member states? On EU accession in 2003 Cyprus and Malta set special "deemed VAT paid" rates of 0% and 5% respectively, for "boats in Residence" prior to EU accession date.

Have they changed this? Boats owned by non-EU residents and registered outside the EU are entitled to tax free temporary importation into the EU for a total period of eighteen months. The EU Common Customs Tariff provides for relief from VAT liability for up to 18 months (Article 562(e) as referenced above) when the boat is owned by non-EU residents and where the boat will subsequently be removed from EU waters (Article 561). The permitted period, or temporary importation, applies to the entire EU area and therefore at the end of the period the boat must be sailed to a country outside the EU or VAT must be paid.

Last edited by G1000; 01-05-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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  #1852  
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So why don't you buy the boat in Florida, sail around the Carib for a few years then take it to your home waters? I understand there is no sales tax in Florida (smart move on their part) and annunal registration can't be more than a few hundred dollars a year. Carib moorings shouldn't be more expensive than Med moorings and travel will probably be a wash.
Also, does paying the VAT immediately upon entry in Eurozone apply to USCG documented vessels?
Also, buy it without sails and equipment to establish purchase basis then add all the toys later at six to eight percent sales tax or over the internet and no sales tax.
I'm not a tax lawyer, or lawyer of any type and my advice might get you in trouble with the tax man, but if you really love that boat then there must be some way to defer the VAT.
Go talk to a tax man.
I've enjoyed this thread immensly, thanks.
John
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  #1853  
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There is a 6% sale tax in Florida up to $3000,000 boat ($18,000) in taxes. So I am not so sure that will work. In NC there is no sales tax on a used boat I believe. If the Florida law changed on Jan 1st that would be great because I am in the boat buying mode right now and like Paulo my budget is busted because of the sales tax in Florida on a new boat.
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  #1854  
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Lease it in France and save half the VAT if you have it outside of EU waters for half the time. Fixes half the problem although I don't know what interest rates are looking like on boats these days.

Then rent it out a few weeks to some friends / family the first 2 or 3 years and you can recoup the 15K€ difference over time pretty easily. As long as they are good sailors, no problem.

If you really want it, you know you can find a solution.
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  #1855  
Old 01-06-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
Lease it in France and save half the VAT if you have it outside of EU waters for half the time. Fixes half the problem although I don't know what interest rates are looking like on boats these days.

Then rent it out a few weeks to some friends / family the first 2 or 3 years and you can recoup the 15K€ difference over time pretty easily. As long as they are good sailors, no problem.

If you really want it, you know you can find a solution.
Not really. I know everything about French leasing, I even had one signed at the Paris boat show but you probably don't know that the rules are going to change this year (it is already on EC law).

If you are a French it is like that, you will only pay 50% of VAT on the leasing and that means that you can pay the boat in 6 years have the VAT paid and have a boat for a slightly inferior price of what you would get it if you buy the boat immediately to a dealer and paid the VAT at that time.

Unfortunately that is going to change at the end of this year for the ones that are not French (or Italian in the case of the similar Italian leasing) and the fiscal regime that will be applied will not be the one from the leasing company but the one from the client's country, I mean the one that is paying leasing (the future owner of the boat). That means that I will only pay 50% VAT on 12 rents but I will have to pay 100% VAT on 30 rents.

You are lucky, you are French, take advantage on that while you can because I don't think it will last long

And regarding charter the boat, well that is nice with friends till you start to ask them some money...then it is not nice anymore and I have no disposition for charting unless I really have too. I prefer a 4 or 5 years's old boat to having a new boat and have to do charter it.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 01-06-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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  #1856  
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Today I will propose you a comparison between two great boats, yes they are great and at BIG, the Halberg Rassy 64 that is nominated for the European boat of the year and the Comet 62, a big brother from the 31 that I have posted some posts back.

The Comet 62 is a 4 year old boat but has not a wrinkle and even looks more modern than the HR 64 that is a nice boat. Well, the HR 64 is a nice boat, the Comet 62 is gorgeous boat, about the same difference between a nice house keeper (I mean a wife) and a top model, if you know what I mean.

The boats were both tested last year by Yachtworld magazine and it was not a comparative test since both boats will appeal to different kinds of sailors.

Both testers were, a lady and a guy, were very impressed with the boats that each one tested.

First, the HR 64:




The tester was alone in the boat with Magnus Rassy and could verify what Rassy had told her: That the boat was designed to be easily sailed by a couple.

On demanding conditions with 21 to 23K wind she said:

"As easy to sail as a small boat...with push button controls...it is so easy using buttons at the binnacle that you can play the mainsheet like a dinghy"

She was very impressed with the overall quality of the boat.

The boat is fast too and on a reach they have made between 9.5K and 10K.


The Comet 62RS:




The tester said:

"I come away impressed with the Comet 62RS...it would be hard to tire of her lines...the quality of her build becomes obvious when you sail her. Her fittings are...oversized which boosts confidence.

She proved rewarding and powerful with a good turn of speed and a comfortable cruising motion. ..The Italian yard...injects character, soul and quality into their boats."


The boat has the 4 winches around the wheel, two back and two forward to permit short crew sailing and they are electric.

With 9/12K wind the boat made 7.5K at 23º/27º apparent wind and 8.5/9K at 25º apparent wind with 20K wind.

The owner apologized about the hull being dirty and said that in normal conditions with a clean hull the boat would be a knot faster.

.................................................. .................................................. ..........................

These hull profiles and stability curves show all the difference between both boats in what regards power and sailing:








These small graphics were taken from YachtingWorld magazine (I hope they don't mind) and you can find there the complete tests. They have the magazine on line on Zinio and you can find the Halberg Rassy test on the 2011 Setember issue and the Comet test on the July 2011 issue.


...

Last edited by PCP; 01-06-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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  #1857  
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Not really. I know everything about French leasing, I even had one signed at the Paris boat show but you probably don't know that the rules are going to change this year (it is already on EC law).
Why don't you establish BVI (or any other offshore jurisdiction) company with nominal ownership. This BVI company (non-EU resident) leases yacht via French company. Then you charter yacht from your BVI company and enjoy tax free temporary importation into the EU for a period of 18 months. At the end of this period yacht would have to leave EU waters, but returned is entitled to temporary importation again.
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  #1858  
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First movies and boat tests with the new Jeanneau 509, a fast cruiser with a fantastic interior, a true house boat:





And the video from the boat test on Yacht magazine. The ones really interested on the boat should read the test on the last number of yacht magazine.


http://tv.yacht.de/video/Neues-Flagg...7600c0c2abc975


....

Last edited by PCP; 01-06-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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  #1859  
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THEY HAVE MADE IT!!!!

New world record on the circumnavigation time:

45 days 13 hours 42 minutes 53 minutes.

Loïck Peyron and his team own the Jules Verne trophy and they were a lot faster than Jules Verne.

They have made 29 002 Nm at the incredible average speed of 26,51 K


Last edited by PCP; 01-06-2012 at 10:14 PM.
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  #1860  
Old 01-07-2012
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For the ones that are not following closely the Volvo race, this fantastic video with great images of the finish of 2º leg on Abu Dhabi:




The Volvos are really beautiful boats, a bit wet to my taste
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