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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#39 ·
The only downside sailing wise for the 1050 and 1060 RM's is the main traveller that's smack in the middle of the cockpit. Any uncontrolled gybes and you have a dangerous situation for the crew in the cockpit.

Granted, any unplanned gybe can get nasty quick but on the RM (like quite a few other designs), you have a facefull of mainsail rigging if you're not careful. It would have been interesting to see them do a coachroof traveller or something farther back with a center console like the Pogo.

Upside is all controls are centered including the genois / foresail so no more sitting on the rail in the wet to tune.

Lombard has a very good track record as well and I imagine this should be a nice sailing boat.
 
#40 ·
The only downside sailing wise for the 1050 and 1060 RM's is the main traveller that's smack in the middle of the cockpit. Any uncontrolled gybes and you have a dangerous situation for the crew in the cockpit.
.
The main traveller is not on the midle of the cockpit, it is behind the helm on the back of the boat, out of the way from the crew and at hand to the guy that is at the helm.



Regards

Paulo
 
#41 ·
PCP, you're right. My point is that downwind you're going to be seeing a lot of cordage sweeping across the cockpit. At the tiller you have the main sheet behind you which is tricky to manage even if it does bring you closer to the genoa winches for single handing. I'd have to see in real life how it works but I would have preferred a more recessed main traveler to creat a bit more breathing room from the tiller and crew on gybes.

Could be a good setup for double handing - someone behind the main traveler taking care of the main and the tiller / genoa/asym by the same person.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Rm 1350

Yes they have a new 13.50.

That's a really big and fast boat. The boat has won, recently, on the Italian boat magazine "Vela", a boat test to chose the best fast cruiser.

The boat was test sailed and compared with the: Vismara 44, Salona 44, Dufour 45, First 45, Elan 450, Grand Soleil 46 and Hanse 47.

As you know Fora Marin is a small manufacturer and the RM 1350 was compared to boats from big manufacturers (that give a lot more publicity to the magazine), some of them Italian, with new and very good boats (Vismara 44 and Grand Soleil 46). They really have to love the RM to have considered it the best:D

The basic price of the boat is around 280 000 euros, but for a well equipped boat you will spend 360 000 euros.

Are you sure that the 1200 is not big enough for you? The boat seems bigger than its size, has big tankage and a very good interior (That's my wife's preferred boat). That's the one I am interested in;)

RM YACHTS | RM 1350





Regards

Paulo



 
This post has been deleted
#43 · (Edited)
Rm 1200

Absolutely Gorgeous!
12m more than enough boat for me, but not for the Admiral.
Anyway, recent financial set backs mean they're all out of my financial reach anyway. :(
Nemier,

The RM 1200 is not a regular 40fter. I and my wife are looking for a 42, 44ft boat. At least it is what she wants. But the boat she likes most (the interior) is the RM 1200 and she will be happy with one.

If you put your wife inside one of these, I doubt she would not be satisfied. The notion of space is great, with a lot of outside views.

Take a look at the interior:

Visite 360°

RM YACHTS | RM 1200

And you know, with a smaller boat there are a lot of smaller bills:D

You can have one from 2003/4 for around 220 000 euros. I know that it is expensive for a 6 year old boat, but they have a very high resale value and there are more sailors looking for one than boats available:eek: . They normally come with a very high standard of equipment (ocean ready).

Come to the next Paris boat show, and we can have a beer.:)

Regards

Paulo
 
#44 · (Edited)
RM 1200, JPK 110, Opium 39

I have been in France to test and see some sailboats.

I have sail tested the Opium 39, the RM1200 and I have been in the JPK shipyard, to see the JPK 110 and to have a talk with the builder (that is also a solo racer).

Wauquiez - Les Bateaux Lumière

RM YACHTS | RM 1200

JPK

I was impressed with the Opium 39 speed, not so much with the RM1200 (but my wife loved the boat) and very impressed with the JPK 110.

The boat is all infusion built and the builder really knows what he is doing. As I have said, as a solo sailor he is very experienced (won with one of its boats the Transquadra) and so, he really knows how to adapt the boat to solo sailing. He also will be glad to adapt the boat to my cruising needs. He had already done that sucessfully to some costumers that are very happy with their boats.

The boat is a 37ft and has the speed potential of regular 40ft cruiser-racer and costs 70000 euros less than the Opium 39. It is also a very safe boat and I believe, a comfortable boat, especially adapted to go upwind.

I am very interested by this one. I will test sail it, when there is a boat available and I will design some interior mods, to see if they are feasible. My wife wants more water (all the water works as ballast and can be moved from one side to the other) and I believe that there is space for more 180 L (90 on each side). No water (at least 300 L), no boat:D

For the next six moths I will have a lot of work ahead, so I will not post frequentlly, but if any of you wish to know more about any of these boats I will try to find time.

Regards

Paulo
 
This post has been deleted
#45 · (Edited)
Opium 39



Marty,
Actually I find the Opium 39 a good looking boat.



About the boat and its speed potential I think you would like to read this boat test:

http://www.wauquiez.com/presse/opium-39/pdf/YACHT-JANV-2010-FR.pdf

The Translation is really bad. This is the translation of a test by the Doitch magazine "Yacht". "Yacht" is in my opinion probably the best sailing boat magazine (and I know a lot of them) and they don't like particularly French boats. They normally like X-Yacht, Arcona, Luffe, Finngulf, Swan and the like. I believe that I never heard them say so well about a French boat.:D

Look at the wind speed and the boat speed. I have sailed the same boat (the one in the photo) with about the same wind and I can tell you that those numbers are for real. The boat sails not far away from wind speed.

Regards

Paulo
 
This post has been deleted
#47 · (Edited)
Allures 45

Hey Guys, take a look at this boat, it is a beautiful one. Look also at the very nice interior (amenagements):

Allures 45 - Allures Yachting

This is not an especially fast boat. It is a pure long range cruising boat, the kind the French prefer: An aluminum Centerboarder.

The Allures 44 was already, probably, the best midsized aluminum, center boarder. It was not ugly, but this one, the new 45, is a beauty….. and should be a relatively fast cruising boat. Probably one of the fastest among this kind of boat.

Regards

Paulo
 
#48 ·
Wow....

Ok, I've been away from the forums for a while and just recently stumbled on this thread and am absolutely stunned at what's available in terms of these smaller yards.

Being in Canada, my knowledge of the European boats is fairly limited to the big names and to be honest, I hadn't even considered any of the "Racer/Cruisers" until I got a look at the POGO 12.50. WOW !! My jaw dropped !!

I curse you...I mean I was all happy day dreaming about a new HR 37 or 43 but now I've got POGO, Opium & JPK on my mind...Trying to figure out a way to sell the idea of a go-fast boat with a minimalist interior as being better for our sailing plans. Maybe I can highlight the lower maintenance costs & time due to less varnished wood. Quicker trips between destinations with cold beer. Less cooking cause we can't carry as much fresh produce.

Seriously though, this has opened up a whole new avenue of thought for me. Thanks for the introduction.

SRW
 
#49 · (Edited)
Olea 44

Glad to share.

If you have the money for an Halberg Rassy, perhaps you can dream with the Oléa 44 (it is not as expensive as a HS) and has better interiors compared with the Pogo. This boat made recently quite an impact in France and put a lot of guys dreaming with distant shores and really fast cruising. This one is quite an animal:D



It is a Pierre Rolland design and, like the Pogo 12.50 is a civilized class 40.

http://www.olea-composite.com/Download/Olea44%20Documentation.pdf

www.rolland-archi.com

Voiles et Voiliers : Croisière - Olea 44 (Olea Composite/Pierre Rolland)

Voiles et Voiliers : Chantier - Les nouveautés du Grand Pavois 2009 : Oléa 44, la grande croisière en biquille

Regards

paulo
 
#50 ·
Glad to share.

If you have the money for an Halberg Rassy, perhaps you can dream with the Oléa 44 (it is not as expensive as a HS) and has better interiors compared with the Pogo.
Well, that's the thing. At first glance I thought that the POGO's interior was spartan and bare but then I had a second look at the photos on their website. After a while I grew fond of it. I imagine that the interior would be simple to maintain and clean (sponge & water). The white bulkheads and flooring look nice with the few wooden accents and the interior looks very functional (reminiscent of Japanese architecture). Plus in the heat of the tropics, I imagine that the white would have a "cooling" effect both physically and psychologically.

My one concern with the overall interior of any of the Racer/Cruisers is the apparent lack of insulation on the hull and the headliner on the cabin top. This would likely have an impact on regulating the interior temperature (hot or cold) and would not absorb any of the hull noise underway.

Now if only I could reassure myself that these types of vessels are indeed safe and comfortable enough for live aboard cruising. I've got numerous questions & concerns that have arisen when considering one of these.
1. Steerage at low speed because of the smaller rudder size
2. The obvious limitations on both water and fuel tankage
3. Load carrying capacity, especially in light of their light displacement
4. Provision for anchoring (a locker, spare anchor, windlass, can you carry chain ?)
5. Bimini, I need some kind of sun protection in the cockpit ?
6. Dodger, or do I live in foul weather gear on passage ?
7. Storage for a dinghy & outboard ?

Well, these are questions that I just posed to POGO in an email today and we'll see what they respond with. Maybe I'm being too North American and demanding too much. I mean I love the idea of these vessels, the speed and fun that they would be. I don't mind the "simple" accommodations and in fact almost welcome them. I like the lines and particularly like the idea of the swing keel which would be handy for beaching or at least getting closer to shore but the questions above have me wondering.

SRW
 
#52 · (Edited)
Rustler

PCP,
..Have you seen a Rustler 44 Rustler 44 on the European boat show circuit ?
Bernd
No. I believe that you can only see them at Southampton (or London) boat show and I never went to that one.

But I know Rustler, the last of the traditional British boats. They are made with great care, hand made and very expensive. The quality is great, but I found the design a bit dated. They are great boats, seaworthy and reseonably fast, for medium displacement boats.

Rustler 44

I really love the Ruster 26. It's a classic. Look at the way they work. It is not surprising they are expensive. Take a look at the video:
Rustler 24

If you are interested in decksaloons, I find the new Southerlies (49, 46 and 42) and the new Regina (35 and 40) better designed. Never saw a Regina (for that you have to go to sweeden), but I saw several Southerlies and they are great sailing boats, very well made.

REGINA 40, Regina af Vindö Yachts (Sweden)
Southerly

Regards

Paulo
 
#54 ·
Found out this morning, the 409 is being made in Marion South Carolina at the Beneteau US Eastcoast plant, and will be at the Sept Annapolis show for the fall BOTY shows. Jeanneau has had some 33/36 and 39's built back there, and are showing up price wise, on par with the next sized smaller built in France. a savings of about 15K US$ on shipping across the pond. A smart move on GB to do this, keep workers at that plant working too!

Have not heard or seen news about other sizes in the line, but looks like a small shift back to more sporty faster boats is in order. Good news for those that like the Jeanneau line.

Marty
 
This post has been deleted
#57 · (Edited)
Tiller / Wheel

Gents,
twin wheel, single wheel, or tiller...what does your next boat need?
I love a tiller on a largish boat (37' - 44')
I saw a few last season in the San Juan's, most likely custom built composite jobbies, but real easy on the eye...
The wheel has substituted the tiller on relatively small and light boats for comercial reasons. Consumers associate a wheel with a big boat and they want to have a boat that looks like a big boat:D

The tiller is simpler, cheaper, more direct and give you a better boat feeling.

Many of the boats on this thread, specially the sporty ones made by small shipyards, come originally with a tiller, and the wheel comes as an (expensive) option. They ended up selling more boats with a wheel than with a rudder.

For example, the Luffe 43, The Opium 39, the JPK and even the fast cruiser RM1200, all come originally with a tiller. The wheel is an option.

On the Opium 39, the running rigging makes not much sense (position of the winches) if you have a wheel. They are too much forward to be reached from the wheel (and this boat is originally designed as a solo boat). But that position makes sense with a tiller, cause the steering position is a lot more forward than the one on the wheel.

Regards

Paulo
 
#56 · (Edited)
Luffe 43Ds

I have posted about this boat on another thread, but the truth is that I think that he deserves to be also on this one, as an interesting boat:)



This is a Luffe 43Ds and was for severall years my dream boat. It is not anymore becausen I refuse to have dreams that cannot be true, one day.:D

Before the crisis I thought that eventually I could have the means to buy one, so I have visited the shipyard, talked with the owner. They were building one, but they had not one available for test sailing, so I test sailed another luffe (the boat sailed wonderfully).



I liked everything, the boat, the shipyard, Oluf Jørgensen and the love of perfection that they put in all their work.

I don't even think that the boat is expensive, if we compare it with for instance X-Yachts. And I say X yachts, because they are both Danish boats( the Luffe has a local nick name: X-eater:D ) .

The Luffe are very fast cruiser racers, the owner of the shipyard is a racer that 30 years ago made its own racing boat (a 37) . He made Wood Dragons at that time. The boat was so good that he started to build cruiser racers, first for friends then for a small market. He still races and have its own Luffe

Here you can see Oluf Jorgensen racing one of its boats on a major Nordic race (how many owners and designers of sailboats are active racers, or sailors?)



The 43Ds was borne by the desire that an old client (and an old sailor) had to travel extensively. This old racer wanted to travel, but have no desire to sail a slow or boring boat and asked Oluf Jorgensen to adapt a 43 cruiser-racer for extensive bluewater cruising, easy anf fast sailing and the result was that boat.



The 43Ds can be equipped with a self-taking front sail and, as the one on the picture and a top class Danish furler boom. The boat has at least an electric winch (for the furler boom). The boat is light, but strong, with an interior steel frame that support and distribute the rig and keel loads.



Regards

Paulo
 
#58 ·
My preference is a tiller. If my next vessel is sold with a wheel, I'll consider the expense of converting to a tiller, such is the strength of my desire for a tiller. However, the twin wheels are a different breed altogether, and this appeals to me. Therefore my personal preference is:
1. tiller
2. twin wheel
3. single wheel, (& as Cesar Milan says)...in that order.
(everybody) What's Your personal preference)?
 
#60 · (Edited)
I used to be a single wheeler but now not overly concerned which way I go. I've sailed the VDS34 in both tiller and wheel variations and if I had my choice there, I'd go tiller (and also fractional rather than masthead rig, which is another discussion altogether). However the choice to go tiller would be more to do with freeing up space in the quarter berth which on the Womboat is cluttered up with steering gear.

Twin wheels are cool. The only boat with twins I've ever sailed was Giulietta. Certainly preferable to one big wheel I reckon.

As an aside.....Sailing on Giulietta was a lot of fun and the fastest keel boat I've ever sailed on but I'd not choose such a design as my long term cruiser. Paulo spoke about driving a Ferrari v a Volvo....as long as the Volvo is a new one and not like the old 245 I had once :eek:, yes I agree....:). Then again even the 245 was pretty good on the open road, just a bit sluggish around town. To be frank crossing oceans at 15 plus knots does not have all that much appeal if only because should you hit something at that speed something is going to get very badly damaged. As a day sailor maybe its a different story.

ps (edit)....Absurdly expensive even when compared to the Luffe but i've always felt these things were pretty cool.....

2008 K&M Yachtbuilders Bestewind Bestewind 50 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com



(thats big sister btw...Bestevaer 53)

and can anyone identify this ?

 
#59 · (Edited)
Copy of Post from $100,000 Circumnavigator.

Paulo...sorry about the spelling....payback for calling me a cat....:p...I was actually going to ask you how come a Portuguese ended up with an Italian name......whoops.....Paulo it is. :)

Man that Luffe is one sexy beast. It really is a DS41, lengthened, updated and with what looks like absolutely awesome build quality. Nice to see the top loading (as well as front) refrigeration. American DS41s usually have a top loader but not the European. Galley layout on the Luffe is revised, they have done away with that silly controller at the chart table and ditched the odd anchor stowage. All for the good. Not sure about that stool at the bottom of the companionway but that is pretty simple to resolve and a very minor issue.

Show me where to sign. :eek:

Ah if only.

I have no idea what the Luffe would be worth but I suspect more than I am. There are none available used on Yachtworld.

I reckon I would still be happy with a Dehler but yes the Luffe does go one better and on the basis of the web site it has gone straight to number one on the Wombat list of desirable holes in the water.

Thanks for the links....I think....then again maybe I was better off when I didn't know this thing existed.....

<o>
</o>
This was my reply to Paulo re the Luffe 43.

I'm with Paulo on this one....I'd love this baby to be my dream angel but reality is I am never going to be able to afford even a used one. For that reason I am staying faithful to my smaller less expensive piece of fluff...the Dehler DS41. Older, slower, smaller but at least she comes close to my budget.
 
#64 · (Edited)
Elan 350

Nice scenary.

Yes, but you work with those veicules. I work on my computer.:)

Boat talk:

The new Elan 350 (post 64) is on the water. It seems as nice as in the computer drawings.

Take a look at the Elan site , some articles and to a boring movie (No wind, the guy speaks Croatian, but we can have a good look at the boat ant it looks very interesting):

My Sailing: Elan 350 - Out in Front in Design, Performance and WOW Factor!

ELAN Marine - Sail - Sail Yachts

Elan 350

http://www.zlregata.com/e350_Portugues.ppt

Elan 350 - test | Sailtube

Sail-World.com : New Elan 350 - Out in front in design, performance and pure Wow!

Elan 350 | bilder | BLUR






Regards

Paulo
 
#65 · (Edited)
Pogo 12.50, Opium 39, Dufour 40e - Match

Marty, what do you think of the Elan 35?

Guys, on this thread we talked about the Pogo 12.50 and about the Opium 39. Some months ago I had read a boat test, an interesting compairison between the Opium 39, the Pogo 40 cruising (the model that is going to be upgraded as Pogo 12.50) and the new Dufour 40e. I found out that they had put the movie on internet.

Tell me : are not this all beautiful sailing Boats?:)



Regards

Paulo
 
This post has been deleted
#66 · (Edited)
Elan 350

paulo,

IF I could afford the thing, and if the design specs allowed fully sailed single double handed sailing like Jeanneau's SF3200, or the pogo, frankly, probably the best option overall. Big enough to keep spouse happy, enough performance for myself. There is a Stealer.......OOOOPS..........Dealer in town. The E310 would also work, Bob Perry did a review in Sailing about a month ago, maybe two. Just got an August issue the other day, can not remember if it was in the July or June. July is ringing a bell.
You photos are the first I Have seen of the 350 interior and exterior. Interior might be a little plain for spouse, but some window treatments, showier seat cushions, different wall colour etc could give this part a kick in the pants.

Marty
Marty, <O:p</O:p
I am quite sure your wife will love the interior. This is among the fast boats the one that has a more functional interior, with lots of storage. It is also very agreeable. See what I post about it below.
<O:p</O:p
If you want a full and very good test on the 31, PM me and send me your email.

Regards

Paulo<O:p</O:p

butting in....I like the Elan 35. ... the interior is somewhat bland and I do not like the beige finish. Warm it up a bit and yeah, OK.
<O:p</O:p
The big question I have re the Elan is why don't they make the windows in the hull bigger ? Now I know this is the DS lover speaking but I do not understand why they make the things so small. It cannot be strength. I don't believe for one minute that in this day and age glass cannot be every bit as strong as the other hull material. Is it simply the fact that just as in the airline world the consumers are uncomfortable with large openings ?
<O:p</O:p
&#8230;..Having another look at the Elan...is that interior finish beigy paint or is it an almost pinky beige veneer ? Whatever it is I don't like it one bit.
<O:p</O:p
... This obsession with light coloured interiors confuses me. Then again maybe I am a troll at heart.<O:p</O:p
....
<O:p</O:p
That photo is a snapshot from the interior of a prototype. It is not by hazard that the guys from Elan did not post any interior photo on its site. It is probably because they consider that what they have is not up to their standards.
<O:p</O:p
I agree with the you that this fashion to use light colored Oak on the interior is appalling. What I found odd is that there are certainly a lot of people that like it:confused: , otherwise it would not be a"fashion". The interior is not painted, it is all wood.
<O:p</O:p
Actually I find the Elans interiors to be the most agreeable of all performance boats (excluding the very expensive ones). The level of finish is good, just a bit under Dehler, but at the same level (perhaps better) than all the others, and the design is the best. Of course, I would not have said that if I was considering that photo. The light is very bad, the boat shows that it is a prototype, the color of the wood and fabric of seats is all wrong.
<O:p</O:p
On the last years I have been several times inside Elan (380, 410, 450), as well as inside most of other similar sized cruiser racers and that is where I base my opinion.

The interior lighting is also good. If you look at the boat profile you will see that the lateral "window" is big and there are big hatches on the roof. Certainly they have more light than a Dufour a First or a Dehler. Again, the photo is misleading.<O:p</O:p

Take a look at the interior of the old 34. You can see that it is cozy and that the wood feels right. That is not the same wood (there are several wood interior options).
<O:p</O:p
ELAN Marine
<O:p</O:p
Try to look again at that interior photo (the one I have posted) and you can see that the interior design (taking away the bad finish, light and wrong colors) is actually a lot better than on the 34, with a small view to the scenery.
<O:p</O:p
That interior seems to be midway between the one from the 340 and the one from the 380.
<O:p</O:p
Take a look at the one from the 380 (again, wrong option of wood, in my opinion) but you can see that the design is ok, with lots of storage and the finish is good.
<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
Regards

<O:p</O:p
Paulo<O:p</O:p
 
#67 ·
#68 · (Edited)
Olivier Van Meer - Puffin and Zaca.

Since we are talking about classic yachts and Dutch naval architects, it is more than fair to talk about Olivier Van Meer and about its series, Puffin and Zaca.

I believe the ones that like classic boats are going to love it (I like them a lot:) ). My first boat was a true classic (more than 50 years old):) .


Take a good look at theses sites, they are full of beautiful boats:

Olivier F. van Meer - Sail

Zeiljachten

Architecten - Puffin & Little Zaca Yachts (uk)

PuffinsUSA.com

Regards

Paulo
 
This post has been deleted
#69 · (Edited)
Elan 350

hate the dual wheel system on the 35. Absolutely no reasonable need for this on that size boat and it kills the cockpit space once you arrive at destination.

My opinion, but the dual wheel tillers are an ego trip on smaller boats.

Otherwise it's a nice boat, well built and good performance.
I would also have preferred a single wheel (by the reasons I give on post 119) and maybe that comes as an option but I do not understand what you mean when you say that "it kills the cockpit space once you arrive at destination".

If that boat had not two wheels it would have to have a big wheel and that would make the passage between the front of the cockpit and the back more difficult. I will post an Elan 38 photo to explain what I mean:


Regards

Paulo
 
#71 · (Edited)
Noordkaper 40

Don't be greedy. I am sure a 40ft is enough for you, like this one:



This one is not so expensive:D :D :D

2004 Noordkaper 40 gebr van Enkhuizen - Boats.com

At least for a rich guy:D . Seriously, this is not a Puffin, it looks very similar but the hull is very different. This one is even more traditional, a direct descendent of the old North Sea fishing boats. They are similar because they have the same origins but the Noordkaper maintains much of the original hull form.

These beauties are designed by another Dutch Naval Architect, Martin Bekebrede.

2004 Noordkaper 40 gebr van Enkhuizen - Boats.com

KoopmansKasko

The interiors look even better than the ones from Puffin:

Noordkaper 40 - 43 - 46 - 52 - 56 - 60

At least a charter place on one of this babies seems not too expensive...and in very nice places.
Take a look at this one:

Anne-Margaretha Charters Zee Zeilen - The Ship

Anne-Margaretha Charters Zee Zeilen - Welkom op de site van de Anne-Margaretha

Regards

Paulo
 
#72 · (Edited)
On design - different types of boats

Let's get back to performance boats, but first let me make a clarification:
<O:p</O:p
On this thread there are light performance boats, medium displacement boats like the Sirius or the Nordship and heavy boats, like the Puffin or the NoordKaper. Do I really like all these sailboats?: Yes I do:) . Do they all sail well? Yes, accordingly to what they were designed to do.<O:p</O:p

Let's start with the Noordkaper. This one is made for voyaging and I don't mean small trips, but for living aboard and circumnavigate. That means trade winds on the right season. Trade winds means generally 15 to 25k blowing from the right place. On this conditions a 42 Noordkapper probably will go along nicely between 6,5 and 8,5k with style and comfort.

Try to sail that boat with 10k wind and it will go very slowly. Try to go against the wind and probably you will find that the boat will not do better than 50 or 55º. That's why it has a big diesel tank and a big engine. If you don't plan to make big voyages, this is not the boat for you, unless you chose to live in the boat and accept that on most occasions you will have to motor or motorsail to go anywhere.
<O:p</O:p
Let's go to the other extreme, performance cruising boats. Those that are normally called cruiser-racers and are dual purpose boats: You can club race with the friends and you can cruise. I am only addressing here the cruising potential.
<O:p</O:p
Let's compare the Noordkapper with a 45ft, for example the First 45.
<O:p</O:p
http://www.beneteau.com/UserFile/Image/Panoramiques_Flash/dec07/beneteau-first-45.html
<O:p</O:p
http://www.beneteau.com/fr/voile/produit.aspx?GAM_CODE=6&PRO_CODE=300<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Of course, not minding the price (the Noordkapper would cost more than twice), the First could be used to voyage extensively and to cross oceans, at a speed far superior to the Noordkapper (trade winds between 9 and 14k) but of course you hope not to hit a whale or anything of considerable size with the First. The boat would probably survive, but not the rudder (the risk is small, but it can happen).
<O:p</O:p
The kind of movement would be also different (and I am not discussing it where), but I would say that on the Nordkapper the movement would be more attenuated. The load that the First can carry is also very different. It is true that the First does not need to have a huge engine or big diesel tanks because it can sail in many sailing conditions where the Noordkapper would have to use the engine, but in what concerns water, on the First you have to be careful while on the Noordkapper you don't even think about that ( on the First if you do that kind of travel, you would end up mounting a watermaker).

On the Noordkapper you can carry all your stuff, on the First you travel light (and fast).
<O:p</O:p
In what concerns trade winds and grand touring the advantages and disadvantages are mixed, but in what concerns local sailing and coastal and semi-coastal cruising all advantages are on the First side (except if you chose to live in the boat and motor almost everywhere).

While you are slowly motoring the Noordkaper, the First can make 8 K with 10 K wind and probably 6K with 7K wind. With the First you will be sailing most of the time, even against the wind, with the Noordkaper you will be motoring most of the time.
<O:p</O:p
To choose one or other type of boat it is up to your sailing program and with the type of use you are going to give to the boat.
<O:p</O:p
The medium displacement boats that I have posted here are intermediate situations, with a special attention to the new range of Nordships, that are no racing boats, but are fast and good sailing boats, for the kind of program they were built for. You would choose one of these or a performance boat according with your sailing tastes (sportive and fast or cool and slower) and your need for interior comfort.
<O:p</O:p
That's not exactly like that:D , because the 40 Nordship would cost twice the price of the performance boats I have posted on this thread. The option would be a RM that would cost about the price of a performance boat, it is faster than most cruisers and is a boat designed for voyaging. That's the one of the French choices as the voyage boat, and they have a lot from to choose (the other one would be a more expensive aluminum centerboard).
<O:p</O:p
I guess the affordable option would be a mainstream boat, a Bavaria, a Jeanneau a Benetau, a Dufour or a Hanse. But even among these ones there are differences with the Dufour and Hanse being more performance oriented (the Bavaria seems to be moving also on that direction).
<O:p</O:p
Regards
<O:p</O:p
Paulo<O:p</O:p
 
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