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  #2061  
Old 03-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I guess Eric miss your post

But I hope not. The boat was not designed for that and two wheels on that boat only make sense if the boat has a large crew and that's the opposite of its sailing program (solo or short crew).

If you have a tiller and am extension all the winches are near by at reach. With wheels all winches are very far away and out of reach from the skipper.

For having this set up they should have re-positioned the winches.

Regards

Paulo
This is what happens when one is unable to follow this thread for some time, sometimes it's hard to run a job and a yachtclub at the same time... but the good part is that you get a few hours of good reading and fascinating videos when catching up .

No, it's not our boat, G .
Ours is still waiting for us nicely stored at the Structures yard and is now proudly wearing the "2011 award" (there's a low res picture of the Structures team in front of our boat in this diaporama Pogo 12,50 | Chantier naval STRUCTURES, constructeur des voiliers POGO (site officiel) :: STRUCTURES Shipyard, construction of sailing boat POGO (Oficial website).

And I think you are both perfectly right: these twin weels are not a good idea.
The steering positions are very exposed and completely out of reach of the winches. They stand in the aftermost, very wide and quite unsafe part of the cockpit .
Bringing the winches back on the coamings would mean losing one of the most attractive features of this cockpit design: winching in a comfortable, upright and sheltered position .
And last but not least, with twin wheels you will certainly loose most of the nice rudder feeling that is very famous on Pogo's (at least with the autopilot uncoupled) .

So no worry, we sticked to the tiller!

Best regards,

Eric
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  #2062  
Old 03-04-2012
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Yes Paulo, that's the one.
As soon as we come back fom Brittany, this time with the boat , I'll try to post a better picture.

Best regards,

Eric
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  #2063  
Old 03-04-2012
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New boat, this one for young guys that like to sail fast and don't have much money, the Kerkena 7.6, a very interesting boat.

The Kerkena 7.6 comes after the Kerkena 6.1 that was a boat heavely influenced by the mini class racers. The idea is to have a boat with offshore capacity as small and as less expensive as possible.

The Kerkena is designed by Defline one of the most creative and inovateur young French Naval Architects and the boat is purposed with a traditional keel or in a twin keel version.




Strange twin keel? Yes I agree. Defline used them on the Heol 7.4, a faster but also much more expensive boat (already posted). They are designed not only to offer minimum resistance but also to divide the weight to lift, because those keels swing given the boat the possibility to go at the beach.

They offer a very interesting solution because not only the lifting weight is less as also they support integrally the boat when on dry preventing any damage to the hull:





The other version:




The boat has a very well designed interior, a functional one:








The boat cost 35 500€ including 20% French VAT and includes sails.


GENERAL FEATURES:

. H.T Length: 7.55 m
. Length LWL: 7.55 m
. Width: 2, 55 m
. displacement standard: 1490 kg
. Kerkena all options : 1960kg
. Ballast weight: 520 kg (fixed keel or 2 swivel keel)
. Standard draft: 1.50m
. Biquille lift Draught: 1m80/0m40
. Standard sail area: 33.7 m˛
. Pack RC Sail area: 42.5 m˛
. CE Category: C (B pending)
. Mat. Const. : Polyester / Polyester sandwich
. Architect: Martin Defline


Last edited by PCP; 01-08-2014 at 06:54 PM.
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  #2064  
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Buing a used boat in Italy.

I want to share some knowledge that can be helpful for some of you.

Has you all know I bought recently a boat in Italy. Italy is right now a very good place to buy a used boat: New tax over property of boats, very expensive marinas and an economy going down makes a big offer and a very small demand on boats so prices are low and it is possible to get the boats for much less than the asking price.

Some tips:

1- Many times you can find the same boat advert on Italian and non Italian brokers (German and Dutch ones). You will tend to call the Italian one: Big mistake, while everybody charges the selling commission to the owner, Italian ones charge half the commission to the owner and half to the buyer, therefore the advertised price is only that one if the brooker is not Italian, on an Italian one you will pay that price plus 7.26% (Vat included).

2- The new Tax on boats will not apply to a foreigner even if the Italian flag is maintained.


3- I have dealt with Mediaship. I will describe the way they work and you will take your conclusions:

a) You contact them and they show the boat to you.

b) You want to make an offer on a boat to know if the owner accepts that and they will ask you a 10% caution over the boat value and make you sign a contract that says that if the owner accepts and if a survey (the surveyor is chosen by you) is positive you have to keep the boat or you will lose the 10%.

c ) - The Mediaship contract says regarding the Survey: “The expert will develop a technical assessment of the boat status in order to ensure the agreement stated in the technical record card and the possible existence of defects which could produce risks of safe navigation….The only cost of slipway and launch will be charged to the seller when the checks … have, objectively, a negative outcome”.

d) – When someone sings this is not aware of the implications, namely in what means a negative outcome in what regards a Survey. In Survey terminology A means: Excellent - Object is like new and functions correctly; B means: Good - Object presents slight signs of wear and tear, but functions correctly; C: Fair - Object shows signs of age but still functions; D – To be substituted Imminent breakage - worn and torn.

e) – A boat has to be really in very bad shape to have a D mark on the survey. If you are buying a 5 year old boat you would expect everything to have A and B marks. However if you have a boat with parts “that show signs of age but still function” it still will have a positive survey if the boat has C marks even if in a 5 year boat or newer it would not be normal to show any “signs of age”.

f) – The first boat that I have saw and made an offer with Mediaship was Sottovoce, a 2007 Comet 41s that revealed in the a hull “30% humidity, no blisters and humidity on the core”. The hull had a C mark and that will give an overall positive survey to the boat.

I had to make a lot of noise not to be forced to accept that boat ( that later show that it had not only humidity on the core, but water) but they could have forced me to accept it contractually, or to lose the 13 000€ that I had given them as caution.

g)- This is not to blame on the surveyor. Probably that hull was acceptable if it was a 30 year old boat and in fact the boat had no blisters and no delamination and would not constitute an imminent risk for safe navigation and it was not in need of immediate substitution or reparation (but later would delaminate and would need an expensive reparation). Probably the mark C was the correct one.

h) - So you get my drift. I will recommend the Surveyor but not Mediaship. You can make your own opinion.

4 - Regarding the many boats I saw in Italy and also the dealer, I found a nice one and in the end did not bought him the boat. Anyway, if someone is interested in an Epoxy Salona 2008 with rod rigging, great sails, an impeccable deck and cockpit and a not so impeccable interior, with one year of warranty given by Grand Soleil by a very good price (a bit more than 120 000€, Vat paid) send me a pm. I was almost to buy that boat. With that dealer no need of any written contract to make an offer and to know if the owner accepted that offer and no caution paid.


....

Last edited by PCP; 03-04-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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  #2065  
Old 03-04-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
So it is finished, just waiting for you

The voyage home will be in May? We want not only some pictures but a full reportage

Regards

Paulo
Will do, Paulo!

The boat was ready in december but we felt it was a good idea to leave it in Brittany until weather conditions become a little more pleasant . After all, we're cruisers!
Christian Bouroullec and his team were so kind to free a little space to store our TriMen safely, warm and dry. They will launch and rig it in the few next weeks.

The plan is to test sail for a few days in the proximity of the yard and then take the 450 NM or so to Nieuwpoort (Belgian coast), weather permitting. ETA: mid april.

What about your stunningly beautiful Alma? Am I right you will stay in Italy, at least until next year?

Best regards,

Eric
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  #2066  
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Beautiful traditional boats:

RS Stavanger pilot from Truls Alnes Antonsen on Vimeo.



Rekonstruksjon av sleping med RS Stavanger from Truls Alnes Antonsen on Vimeo.



Segel from Kjell Sallén on Vimeo.

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  #2067  
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi Eric,

I don't know. The boat is near Trieste on the Adriatic and close to Slovenia.

It all depends where I am going to make some mods on the boat (electrical and regarding safety: holding points for harness and some other things).

If I do that in Italy, on the winter of 2013, I will sail on Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro and Albania, and late in the summer I will cross to Italia, turn around in Syracuse and leave the boat in Fumicino, near Rome.

If I do that in Greece, I will make the same way and then will go for Greece to leave the boat for the winter and to have the job done there.

If the price is not too different I would prefer to do that with the guys from the Comet factory, in Fiumicino.

Regards

Paulo
Both plans involve wonderful cruising areas.

Enjoy!

Best regards,

Eric
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  #2068  
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Paulo,

thanks for the book link! I'm very much looking forward to learning something new!

Regards,
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  #2069  
Old 03-05-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Paulo,

thanks for the book link! I'm very much looking forward to learning something new!

Regards,
Thanks OPC, nice to know

New boat.... and what a boat!!!!! look at this bow:



Sharp

And it is not a racer but a performance cruiser:















As you can see this is not the interior of a racer. I have been last year in Dusseldorf inside the new Xp 44 and find it a bit small in what the interior is concerned even if with a very good quality everywhere. Well I bet this one has just the right amount of interior space for two couples to cruise in all comfort...and at speed not to mention the fun.



This boat will have a huge stability. Not only the keel is maximized in what regardes producing RM has this boat has almost half of its weight on the keel.

I like it, like it very much....except the price

Last edited by PCP; 03-05-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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  #2070  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I have talked already about Defline, one of my preferred Naval Architechts, the one that has designed Kerkena and Heol. From him only beautiful boats and if not limited to small sizes and he has the creative space for designing a 44ft, absolutely gorgeous boats.

Take a look at his last project, the Defline 44X:

























architecte naval : Martin Defline
conception : 2012

LOA :13.40 m
Beam 4.35 m
Displacement : 10 200 Kg
Ballast : 4 000 Kg
Draft : 2.20 m
Sail area : 107 m˛
engine : 56 ch
Water tank: 650 L
Diesel tank : 550 L
cathegory CE: A
Materials: wood - epoxy

Last edited by PCP; 03-06-2012 at 07:09 AM.
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