Interesting Sailboats

[PCP]

And a beautiful boat, "Eilean", designed by William Fife III, a classic 1936 sailboat (movie by Yacht magazine):



http://tv.yacht.de/video/Hauptsache-...c007b101fe2c4c



.....

[axel]

Dear Paulo
So sad to hear that you will not be buying the Salona after all. You have given us readers so much pleasure through this thread, and I am sure we all were happy for you because you seemed to have found the right boat for yourself. Too bad that it didn' work out!
Anyway, best of luck in your new hunt for a used boat. There are many interesting boats out there, as any reader of this thread knows And of course, looking for a new boat is exciting, so enjoy!
However, I didn't quite understand the tax problem. Is there any particular reason why you wanted to fly a French flag? Would the problem be solved if you gave the boat a Turkish flag? You might even choose to register the boat as belonging to my country, Norway, also outside of the EU. I believe you do not need to pay the Norwegian vat as long as the boat is not brought into the country.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by axel

Dear Paulo
So sad to hear that you will not be buying the Salona after all. You have given us readers so much pleasure through this thread, and I am sure we all were happy for you because you seemed to have found the right boat for yourself. Too bad that it didn' work out!
Anyway, best of luck in your new hunt for a used boat. There are many interesting boats out there, as any reader of this thread knows And of course, looking for a new boat is exciting, so enjoy!
However, I didn't quite understand the tax problem. Is there any particular reason why you wanted to fly a French flag? Would the problem be solved if you gave the boat a Turkish flag? You might even choose to register the boat as belonging to my country, Norway, also outside of the EU. I believe you do not need to pay the Norwegian vat as long as the boat is not brought into the country.

Thanks Axel,
Maybe I end up with a better boat. I mean things are so bad in Europe and price of used boats are coming down so fast that maybe I can buy a 4 year’s old boat that I could not afford any other way. Of course It will not be a new one but my budget just don’t allow a new boat, at least one with the characteristics I want.

Regarding the French flag it is really complicated and has to do with the fact that the Italians and the French have a legislation that permits a boat to be bought in leasing paying only 50% of VAT and ending up with all VAT paid. More than that, If a boat is out of EC waters and it is in leasing it will not pay VAT on the leasing while it is there. If the boat was paid in a 4 years leasing and was out of the EC 4/5 of that time and then come to EC waters it would only pay 1/5 of the VAT and would have all VAT paid, at least it was like that. Not anymore.

As the biggest leasing companies for boats are French (to take advantage of that) the boat would have a French flag since it would be property of the leasing company till the end of the leasing.

Theoretically it could have another banner, including a Portuguese one, but Portugal demands an inspection on the boat equipment and the boats have to come or be in Portugal and I wanted to maintain the boat in Croatia. Anyway from the next year on the rules are going to change and only French and Italians could benefit from those 50% on the VAT.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Westsail 32



I guess everybody knows the boat that has a reputation of being a seaworthy boat. It is an old design and an heavy and slow boat and most of you are probably thinking why the hell I am talking here about this boat.

Well, I could not resist I want to share with you all an article that I have read on the "Yacht" magazine, that's about Tom Corogan an American sailor that with 84 years has failed (again) his sixth attempt to round the Horn. This time he broke the boat mast. Somebody should tell him to try on another boat

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...rn-2441149.php

Seriously the guy is a character, an experienced sailor that have sailed extensively his boat and has all my respect. I would like to be able to sail offshore solo with 84 years of age.



You can find the article here:

Seenotfall: 84-jähriger Einhandsegler gerettet - Panorama*|*YACHT.DE

or a full interview on the November issue of Latitudes 38

http://www.westsail.org/Resources/Do...L38112011s.pdf

[G1000]

Paulo, thanks for all this info. Very strange you will have to pay VAT after Croatia joins EU for already purchased yacht. Does it mean any Croatia registered yacht owner will have to pay VAT? It doesn't make any sense and my guess this would apply just for French flagged vessels. Your described scheme will not work anymore in all EU member states? On EU accession in 2003 Cyprus and Malta set special "deemed VAT paid" rates of 0% and 5% respectively, for "boats in Residence" prior to EU accession date.

Have they changed this? Boats owned by non-EU residents and registered outside the EU are entitled to tax free temporary importation into the EU for a total period of eighteen months. The EU Common Customs Tariff provides for relief from VAT liability for up to 18 months (Article 562(e) as referenced above) when the boat is owned by non-EU residents and where the boat will subsequently be removed from EU waters (Article 561). The permitted period, or temporary importation, applies to the entire EU area and therefore at the end of the period the boat must be sailed to a country outside the EU or VAT must be paid.

[ccriders]

So why don't you buy the boat in Florida, sail around the Carib for a few years then take it to your home waters? I understand there is no sales tax in Florida (smart move on their part) and annunal registration can't be more than a few hundred dollars a year. Carib moorings shouldn't be more expensive than Med moorings and travel will probably be a wash.
Also, does paying the VAT immediately upon entry in Eurozone apply to USCG documented vessels?
Also, buy it without sails and equipment to establish purchase basis then add all the toys later at six to eight percent sales tax or over the internet and no sales tax.
I'm not a tax lawyer, or lawyer of any type and my advice might get you in trouble with the tax man, but if you really love that boat then there must be some way to defer the VAT.
Go talk to a tax man.
I've enjoyed this thread immensly, thanks.
John

[Melrna]

There is a 6% sale tax in Florida up to $3000,000 boat ($18,000) in taxes. So I am not so sure that will work. In NC there is no sales tax on a used boat I believe. If the Florida law changed on Jan 1st that would be great because I am in the boat buying mode right now and like Paulo my budget is busted because of the sales tax in Florida on a new boat.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by G1000

Paulo, thanks for all this info. Very strange you will have to pay VAT after Croatia joins EU for already purchased yacht. Does it mean any Croatia registered yacht owner will have to pay VAT? It doesn't make any sense and my guess this would apply just for French flagged vessels. Your described scheme will not work anymore in all EU member states? On EU accession in 2003 Cyprus and Malta set special "deemed VAT paid" rates of 0% and 5% respectively, for "boats in Residence" prior to EU accession date.

Hi G,

The Croats have already to pay their own VAT (23%) plus a luxury tax but EC boats in Croatia don’t have to pay any VAT so there are plenty of European boats in Croatia without VAT paid. When Croatia enters EC all those boats, if staying in Croatia, would have to pay the Croat VAT (23%) over the actual value of the boat. Their economy minister has already made a statement saying that they would not make like Cyprus or Malta and that they would apply the full tax.
I guess next year would be a good year to get an annual place in Croatia because plenty of boats will go to Turkey where they will not pay VAT.

Originally Posted by G1000

Have they changed this? Boats owned by non-EU residents and registered outside the EU are entitled to tax free temporary importation into the EU for a total period of eighteen months. The EU Common Customs Tariff provides for relief from VAT liability for up to 18 months (Article 562(e) as referenced above) when the boat is owned by non-EU residents and where the boat will subsequently be removed from EU waters (Article 561). The permitted period, or temporary importation, applies to the entire EU area and therefore at the end of the period the boat must be sailed to a country outside the EU or VAT must be paid.

To my knowledge that has not been modified but that does not apply to me since I am a EU citizen and a resident.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by ccriders

So why don't you buy the boat in Florida, sail around the Carib for a few years then take it to your home waters? I understand there is no sales tax in Florida (smart move on their part) and annunal registration can't be more than a few hundred dollars a year. Carib moorings shouldn't be more expensive than Med moorings and travel will probably be a wash.
...
Go talk to a tax man.
I've enjoyed this thread immensly, thanks.
John

Good to know you like the thread and thanks for your interest in my problems.

I intend, sooner or later, to sail the Carib but I cannot do it right know, I have two kids on the University and I need them to finish the formation and find jobs and besides my wife fathers are still alive. They are very old and my wife is the only child they have so we have to assist them.

Regarding talking to a tax man I have already made that and things are really tight here and things go for worse not better in what regards tax. Eventually the only option would be to have the boat in charter and charter the boat to myself but that’s complicated and I would have to pay tax anyway over the charting.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Melrna

There is a 6% sale tax in Florida up to $3000,000 boat ($18,000) in taxes. So I am not so sure that will work. In NC there is no sales tax on a used boat I believe. If the Florida law changed on Jan 1st that would be great because I am in the boat buying mode right now and like Paulo my budget is busted because of the sales tax in Florida on a new boat.

Sorry to hear about that but still you are lucky 6% is not much if compared to 23%

I don’t know what boat you want but if it is an European brand I would say that if you buy it directly you will get a 15% to 20% discount and that should be enough to cover those 6% plus you will have the fun to sail the boat across the Atlantic but maybe you are interested in an American boat and are already counting with that discount.

Regards

Paulo