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  #2151  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I guess you mean the cat behind that blue "thing"

Regards

Paulo
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  #2152  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
I don't like the look of that seat hatch opening into the interior of the boat like that. It looks pretty vulnerable to water boarding from the stern - the lower lip is barely above the cockpit sole.

In a situation like that I'd want a proper hatch type entry into the "bosun's locker".

Or am I missing something?
Hard to say, never been inside the Vision 46. That would have to do with the downflooding angle of the boat but I would bet that it is a good one.

If you are talking about the very rare possibility of a roll and staying upside down, the possibility of water coming that way is common to almost all boats that have a bigge side locker (with only one cabin on the back). If you want to make that compartment water tight it would be possible but expensive. To be water tight ypu would have to eliminate the possibility of accessing it by the interior of the boat and that is a huge disadvantage in what concerns living aboard.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-24-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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  #2153  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Back to boat stability:..

Obviously the Dynamic stability counts for much in the capacity a boat has to resist capsizing and contrary to a very popular opinion I donít think it has nothing to do with the roll moment of inertia, or the boat mass. If it had, the Miniclass racers or the light OVNI (with little inertia) would be boats that would be easily capsized.

It has all to do with the way a boat dissipates the energy of a breaking wave:

if the boat transform all that energy in a rolling movement (tripping on the keel) the chances are that the boat will capsize. If the boat can dissipate the energy of the wave in a kinetic movement (sliding laterally) the chances are that the boat can resist capsizing.

........
Some clarification about this (taken from another thread):

There are other factors that contribute to dynamic stability and I don't think that one is the more important. Really important is everything that contributes to dissipate the wave energy in kinetic lateral movement and detrimental is everything that contributes to transform that energy in a rotational movement.

I would say that the main factors that contribute to allow the dissipation of energy through a lateral movement are a small area of submersed surface, a small freeboard and a big righting moment (not necessarily at big angles of heel because when boats slide sideways in a wave the heel is not much) and a low inertia.

Regarding inertia and roll moment of inertia, letís consider two boats with the same positive area under the RM curve, and therefore needing the same energy to be capsized. One is a long keeler, small draft, narrow heavy weight boat the other one is a beamy light boat with a big draft and all the ballast on a bulb at the end of a fin keel.

As I had said before the dynamic behavior of these boats when hit by a breaking wave will be very different in what regards the capacity to dissipate the wave energy moving sideways, but letís consider that the full keeler would not trip in its keel, that the extra surface would not have a damping effect on the rotational movement and that the low mass and small under water surface would not permit the lighter boat to move much more easily sideways.

Letís consider that the same amount of energy of the wave that hits the boats results in a rotational movement for both boats.Both boats require the same energy to be capsized so in what regards the results (capsizing or not) the effect would be the same but the kind of movement due to inertia would be very different.

The heavier boat would start to roll much more slowly but because it has much more inertia once started the rolling movement it would be much harder to stop it. On the lighter boat the roll movement will be faster but will be also stopped faster because the inertia is much smaller. Both boats will roll to the same point but the duration of the roll movement (to capsize at 90ļ and back to its feet) will be much longer on the heavier boat.

We could say that the slower movement is a more comfortable one but the fact is that in what regards seaworthiness the heavier boat will be much more time deeply heeled, exposing its side much longer to another breaking wave that will catch him with little stability left and therefore will have potentiated effects, resulting probably in a capsize.

Thatís why I think roll moment of inertia is not a determinant factor in Dynamic stability and that its effect in Dynamic stability effectiveness is many times hugely overrated.


....
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  #2154  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I have said that probably we would get some very good images on the Volvp Ocean race when they would get to that zone with 40K winds and more than 20ft wave.

Here they are, with the boats going at the limit trying to beat the 24 hours speed record. Speed does not bring comfort to those guys, but what a thrill I bet they are loving it



Camper took the lead to Groupama but it seems they were pushing the boat too much. They sustained damages with 50K winds and have slowed down for repairs. Groupama is leading again.

Great sailing, great racing. On this conditions they cannot push boats to where they can go, they have to push them only to the limit before breakage and that is a very difficult thing to do, I mean find that limit , staying close to it without never going over it.

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Race Data Center

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012

...

Last edited by PCP; 01-13-2014 at 06:30 AM.
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  #2155  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Ive been taking a closer look at some daysailers lately for Lake Ontario. I find some of the NA daysailers to be pretty traditional in design (e33, Alerions) and expensive realtively compared to the ones in Europe like the Tarac 33,Dinamica, Sensei etc.
Anyway I came across this boat lol





BTW Paulo, my stepdad said I could visit him this fall and hed take me to the Genova boat show so Ive been eyeing the Comet 26, something I can afford.
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Last edited by Chimbatete; 03-24-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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  #2156  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Chimbatete

That was the Kaidoz, back in 2008/2009 it raised a lot of interest but in the end not many boats were sold and the boat is not made anymore. It was an innovative concept, but I never did like it very much. However it was a good sailing boat.

Here you can see an interesting video about it (the second one is better).

Bateau de l


....


Nice to know you are going to Genova even if Genova is mostly a motor boat show with some Italian sailing boats. The Comet 26 is a nice boat but they don't have an American dealer. You are going to ship the boat to the US?



Why not a First 25.7? That one you can buy there.

First 25.7 S / First / Sailing Yachts - BENETEAU







And perhaps you can even get a First 27.7 for the price of the Comet?







Have fun. While you don't have a boat at least you can dreaming about it

I think they are replacing the 27.7 (not on Benetau site anymore). The 27.7 is a great boat, perhaps you can have an huge discount in some boat they still have in stock.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-24-2012 at 04:23 PM.
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  #2157  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Funny I was just looking at older first series from Beneteau. Most of the 30Es are in Europe and there's a few here same boat but it's First 32. I think they are perfect for the lakes for round the cans and cruising. Those Euro boats though are something else its sad that they don't have dealers. I will look at the first 27 thanks. Speaking of the new first 30, how come I couldn't find much about its performance. It seems like the buzz has died down quite a bit.

Dont know if this is a new boat but its a beauty. Dehler 35SQ

I was looking at the Transquadra and noticed a few Dehlers placing well. That was a surprise because I didnt expect to see it along with Pogos, JPKs, Archambaults and SF3200 since I thought it would be more like a Salona, Finflyer type with nicer interiors.



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Last edited by Chimbatete; 03-24-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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  #2158  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Yes the Dehler 35 is a great boat and it is only new because it has now a two whell setup, the rest is just the same. And yes, the Dehler belongs to the same kind of boats you have mentioned (Salona, FinnFlyer) and it is a fast boat specially upwind.

By the way, talking about Salona I had a look at the Salona 38 test sail by my favorite Magazine, the German “Yacht”. You can buy the test on line but since you can get it for free on the Salona site I hope they don’t mind If I post one image of that test:



Great, isn’t? The title on the photo: Strong performance:
Do you want and Yacht just to sail fast or to race? The Salona 38 can do both.


They say very well about the boat, its looks, its functionality and its building quality.

About the performance and the measured speeds take a look:



Well, I did not manage to own this one, but still think it is a great performance cruiser, and satisfies me that the magazine that I consider to make more objective test sails think about the same.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-24-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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  #2159  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Yes Paulo, I was looking at some used Salona 34 and they are still pricey ($140k avg.) and all in Europe. They are an awesome boat with a nice interior and fast on all points as you posted. Ive noticed that when they (euro boats)do have a dealer here in Canada like the Archambault, the price is abit more. Do they factor in the shipping to the price? Ive been going crazy and going to all the boatshows but its a bit limited here.

Remember the Euro boat of the year 2011 nominees you posted? Remember the special category, one of the nominees is Tarac 33, well I looked into it and wow what a goodlooking daysailer with some room down to boot. Thats like a dream boat for me.

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  #2160  
Old 03-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

That Comet reminds me a lot of the old Morgan 27 MORC boat from the early 70's.
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